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<blockquote data-quote="dr_nukem" data-source="post: 111971" data-attributes="member: 2253">By Alaric:&quot;i don't think you can make that assumption. SU abilities require a standard action, the fact that the ability is based on hide has nothing to do with that. Unless you can find a reference that says Hide in Plain Sight is an exception to this rule i would have to assume that it's a standard action. This makes all the hit and run tactics a little bit harder. &quot;While I agree that the rules as stated would lead to this assumption, I think the rules are poorly written to explain what HiPS allows.It does not make sense to me that if a SD wants to hide around a corner, he uses a MEA to hide, but if he wants to HiPS he has to do a Std Action.&nbsp; There is no difference to a SD...he simply hides.&nbsp; He is better at hiding than most other people.I see this exact logic working for the Monk's SU movement.&nbsp; The monk does not choose to move normal vs move SU fast.&nbsp; He just MOVES.By Alaric:&quot;I think most of the &quot;unbalancing&quot; aspects of the ability are from rules extensions i don't agree with. Barring that though, by the time you get Hide in Plain Sight you are approaching 7th level, at which time the wizard has fly and improved invisibility, which is a much scarier combo. &quot;That's it.&nbsp; HiPS as part of a movement action, or as a MEA, is NOT unbalancing.&nbsp; It is an 8th level equivalent ability (need 10 ranks in hide, 7th lvl, PRIOR to becoming a SD, 8th lvl).&nbsp; Look what other character's can do by 8th level...or other prestige classes for that matter.&nbsp; HiPS is not overpowering, it is just different from other abilities.&nbsp; By Gaiden:&quot;You could technically do two move equivalent actions each at half your base speed such that the total distance moved equaled your base speed. Lastly, what is this about the -20 penalty for hiding in plain sight?!? The hide skill says that hiding under direct observation is impossible. The whole point of the ability is that you don't have to create a diversion to hide (using the bluff skill and taking the -10 penalty on the hide check). You don't have a penalty to the hide check!&quot;I agree here.&nbsp; I think our group is going to go with hide &amp; HiPS as a MEA, so I won't be able to do this, but I agree with your logic.&nbsp; I also agree about the penalty check.&nbsp; HiPS is simply a hide.&nbsp; You don't have to be in the shadow to do it, there just has to be *A* shadow *WITHIN* 10'.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="dr_nukem, post: 111971, member: 2253"] By Alaric: "i don't think you can make that assumption. SU abilities require a standard action, the fact that the ability is based on hide has nothing to do with that. Unless you can find a reference that says Hide in Plain Sight is an exception to this rule i would have to assume that it's a standard action. This makes all the hit and run tactics a little bit harder. " While I agree that the rules as stated would lead to this assumption, I think the rules are poorly written to explain what HiPS allows. It does not make sense to me that if a SD wants to hide around a corner, he uses a MEA to hide, but if he wants to HiPS he has to do a Std Action. There is no difference to a SD...he simply hides. He is better at hiding than most other people. I see this exact logic working for the Monk's SU movement. The monk does not choose to move normal vs move SU fast. He just MOVES. By Alaric: "I think most of the "unbalancing" aspects of the ability are from rules extensions i don't agree with. Barring that though, by the time you get Hide in Plain Sight you are approaching 7th level, at which time the wizard has fly and improved invisibility, which is a much scarier combo. " That's it. HiPS as part of a movement action, or as a MEA, is NOT unbalancing. It is an 8th level equivalent ability (need 10 ranks in hide, 7th lvl, PRIOR to becoming a SD, 8th lvl). Look what other character's can do by 8th level...or other prestige classes for that matter. HiPS is not overpowering, it is just different from other abilities. By Gaiden: "You could technically do two move equivalent actions each at half your base speed such that the total distance moved equaled your base speed. Lastly, what is this about the -20 penalty for hiding in plain sight?!? The hide skill says that hiding under direct observation is impossible. The whole point of the ability is that you don't have to create a diversion to hide (using the bluff skill and taking the -10 penalty on the hide check). You don't have a penalty to the hide check!" I agree here. I think our group is going to go with hide & HiPS as a MEA, so I won't be able to do this, but I agree with your logic. I also agree about the penalty check. HiPS is simply a hide. You don't have to be in the shadow to do it, there just has to be *A* shadow *WITHIN* 10'. [/QUOTE]

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