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<blockquote data-quote="Ashtagon" data-source="post: 6048618" data-attributes="member: 72335">I'd say the level of illumination is a subjective thing, not something that objectively exists.Consider a pitch black hallway with a torch at point X. For a normal human, the space up to X+20 is bright light, and up to X+20 to X+40 is shadowy. For an elf, X+0 to X+40 is bright, and X+40 to X+80 is shadowy. If the level of illumination is an objective thing and not a subjective experience, then you are saying there is something objectively different about the light in the space between X+20 to X+40 and between X+40 to X+80. As far as I know, the only way the game has defined that difference is subjectively, depending on whether or not the observer has low-light vision or not.By your logic, a human 60 feet from a torch can't use hips against the elf standing next to him, because they are both in an area of darkness (and hips requires shadowy illumination). The elf can see the human well enough to strike, because as far as the elf is concerned, the game effect is of shadowy illumination. The human, however, has no idea where the elf is, except by listening for him.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ashtagon, post: 6048618, member: 72335"] I'd say the level of illumination is a subjective thing, not something that objectively exists. Consider a pitch black hallway with a torch at point X. For a normal human, the space up to X+20 is bright light, and up to X+20 to X+40 is shadowy. For an elf, X+0 to X+40 is bright, and X+40 to X+80 is shadowy. If the level of illumination is an objective thing and not a subjective experience, then you are saying there is something objectively different about the light in the space between X+20 to X+40 and between X+40 to X+80. As far as I know, the only way the game has defined that difference is subjectively, depending on whether or not the observer has low-light vision or not. By your logic, a human 60 feet from a torch can't use hips against the elf standing next to him, because they are both in an area of darkness (and hips requires shadowy illumination). The elf can see the human well enough to strike, because as far as the elf is concerned, the game effect is of shadowy illumination. The human, however, has no idea where the elf is, except by listening for him. [/QUOTE]

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