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<blockquote data-quote="Werebat" data-source="post: 3946587" data-attributes="member: 40158">Right, that rule is poorly worded.&nbsp; Strict RAW allow you to hide 70' away from a drow with 120' darkvision, for some reason.&nbsp; Even more goofy, you cannot hide 50' away from a character with 30' darkvision.&nbsp; Go figure.A better wording might have been &quot;a creature with darkvision automatically succeeds on its Spot check to detect a creature hiding within the range of its darkvision unless that creature is invisible, using cover to hide behind, or both.&quot;Given such a sensible house rule, should darkvision automatically see through a shadowdancer's HiPS ability?&nbsp; I think so.&nbsp; Moreover I can't think of an argument that it wouldn't see through HiPS that wouldn't also bar blindsight and tremorsense from seeing through it, too.What I want to avoid is a scenario I saw in another campaign where one guy played a rogue/shadowdancer and every round was the same song -- &quot;I get a full round of sneak attacks, then hide in plain sight (as a free action)!&quot;&nbsp; I'm sure this player was milking the ability for more than it was worth.From what I have learned, it seems more like: &quot;I'm hiding in plain sight at the start of the round, and next to the enemy.&nbsp; I get one sneak attack as a standard action, then use my move action to hide in plain sight, with a -20 penalty to my hide check because I attacked this round.&nbsp; Good thing I'm fighting something without scent, blindsight, or darkvision!&quot;Considerably less &quot;ROXXORZ PWNZORZ&quot; than the former example.&nbsp; Still useful, though.&nbsp;&nbsp; - Ron&nbsp;&nbsp; ^*^</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Werebat, post: 3946587, member: 40158"] Right, that rule is poorly worded. Strict RAW allow you to hide 70' away from a drow with 120' darkvision, for some reason. Even more goofy, you cannot hide 50' away from a character with 30' darkvision. Go figure. A better wording might have been "a creature with darkvision automatically succeeds on its Spot check to detect a creature hiding within the range of its darkvision unless that creature is invisible, using cover to hide behind, or both." Given such a sensible house rule, should darkvision automatically see through a shadowdancer's HiPS ability? I think so. Moreover I can't think of an argument that it wouldn't see through HiPS that wouldn't also bar blindsight and tremorsense from seeing through it, too. What I want to avoid is a scenario I saw in another campaign where one guy played a rogue/shadowdancer and every round was the same song -- "I get a full round of sneak attacks, then hide in plain sight (as a free action)!" I'm sure this player was milking the ability for more than it was worth. From what I have learned, it seems more like: "I'm hiding in plain sight at the start of the round, and next to the enemy. I get one sneak attack as a standard action, then use my move action to hide in plain sight, with a -20 penalty to my hide check because I attacked this round. Good thing I'm fighting something without scent, blindsight, or darkvision!" Considerably less "ROXXORZ PWNZORZ" than the former example. Still useful, though. - Ron ^*^ [/QUOTE]

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