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<blockquote data-quote="TheGogmagog" data-source="post: 3698989" data-attributes="member: 27702">Using the PHB only, there is still one more possibility they are using for how they handle hide.&nbsp; Invisibility is a condition givin in the back of the book, most notably granted by the spell invisibility.&nbsp; Aside from not beeing seen (same as hide), defenders are denied their dex (same as hide), they are {NOT} considered flat footed against you (not mentioned in hide SRD, but 'clarified/added' in CAd), and invisible attackers gain +2 to attack targets that can not see them (not mentiond in hide SRD or CAd or SRD flat footed for that matter).&nbsp; {EDIT: I thought this was part of invisibility but don't see it in SRD.}It's concievable that the DM is using the flat footed condition to consider the target flat footed with respect to your attack.&nbsp; This depends on whether you see CAd addition of the flat footed conditon as a change or stating the debatable 'common sense'.&nbsp; As indicated above it's not the most common interpretation as invisibility = visually undetectable (even though there is a spot DC) &lt;&gt; visually undetected (lower spot DC by 20).I think this flat footed with resect to condition, either abstract SRD, or defined with CAd ruling is what ninja.assassin was referring.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="TheGogmagog, post: 3698989, member: 27702"] Using the PHB only, there is still one more possibility they are using for how they handle hide. Invisibility is a condition givin in the back of the book, most notably granted by the spell invisibility. Aside from not beeing seen (same as hide), defenders are denied their dex (same as hide), they are [COLOR=YellowGreen]{[b]NOT[/b]}[/COLOR] considered flat footed against you (not mentioned in hide SRD, but 'clarified/added' in CAd), and invisible attackers gain +2 to attack targets that can not see them (not mentiond in hide SRD or CAd or SRD flat footed for that matter). [COLOR=YellowGreen]{[SIZE=1]EDIT: I thought this was part of invisibility but don't see it in SRD.[/SIZE]}[/COLOR] It's concievable that the DM is using the flat footed condition to consider the target flat footed with respect to your attack. This depends on whether you see CAd addition of the flat footed conditon as a change or stating the debatable 'common sense'. As indicated above it's not the most common interpretation as invisibility = visually undetectable (even though there is a spot DC) <> visually undetected (lower spot DC by 20). I think this flat footed with resect to condition, either abstract SRD, or defined with CAd ruling is what ninja.assassin was referring. [/QUOTE]

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