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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Coredump" data-source="post: 1769483" data-attributes="member: 6939">A problem crops up because "there is no facing" in DnD. This is done to simplify things, but to me it is taken to an extreme. The reality is that most creatures *do* have a facing, it just isn't covered in the rules. If two guards are staring forward, and you are sneaking past behind them, I don't think they should get a normal Spot check to see you. But the rules make no allowances for which way they are facing. So by the rules it is the same to sneak in front of them, as behind them.In this case, I would rule that the Goblin has cover, he is hiding behind the players heads. Their eyes can't see the rogue behind the tree, and then can't see the rogue that is behind their head.Now, they also may be looking around, so I might give them another spot check, probably with a minus unless they say they are looking around. But it depends. I think it is ludicrous to assume that all creatures/monsters/PC's/NPC's are contantly looking all around. And if they are, they should get a minus to see anything, since they keep looking elsewhere... or maybe they just get dizzy...or whatever.To make a determination on your part, it would depend on how sparse the trees were, what the orientation was, how dark it was, if some were facing towards the rogue, etc..</blockquote>