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Message: <blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 7528841" data-attributes="member: 71699">Seeking analysis of the proposed changes, not solely a recital of the RAW. Perhaps that needed to be clearer. Yes, in play at the table I found the mechanics wanting. Particularly around movement when blind.I agree that per RAW giving away your location does not end your being unseen, and accordingly, you could continue to get advantage. What I found in play is that on larger maps in pitch darkness, numerous instances came up where a creature could attack - giving away its location - but continue to be unseen due to its target's inferior vision. This was subsequently spammed by players: revealing not simply a clever strategy, but a weakness in the underlying rules. The vision rules seem as weak in 5th edition as in every other edition of D&D! Or maybe moreso, due to streamlining efforts. I decided that advantage on the first attack was strong enough to be worth working for without warping the narrative around it. Especially with the out of shifting position. Looking at that again critically, it could be better to say that advantage is only gained while location is unknown. The only issue with that is then a creature needs to be unseen and unheard, and Invisibility or attacking against a Blinded opponent that you can see would strictly speaking fail to give the expected advantage.I wanted to do something like the latter part, but p177 "An invisible creature can't be seen, so it can always try to hide". "Always" is strong wording, so that made me feel that circumstances should be able to exist where your position is known, but you can still try to hide. Still, what you say helps me see that what I'm doing is stopping further hiding under circumstances that could well stop the first attempt. Making it inexplicable what is special about that attempt from earlier ones where your position was known. That needs reconciling.Replaces the second bullet, and adds a third. The blinded creature will attack with disadvantage against a creature that can see it, I do not see how what I've constructed obviates that. It deals specifically with the case where all sides are blinded, which can happen under magical darkness or in pitch black underground. Circumstances that can come up frequently in a dungeon or Underdark adventure.This came out of numerous cases of running through magical darkness, as well as pitch black underground. I would rather say that a moonlit night was dim light, than treat all darkness without reservation as not pitch.</blockquote>

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