Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Hiding and Blindness (updated)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7528925" data-attributes="member: 16814"><p>The bolded above belongs to Hidden, not Unseen. If you are Unseen but not Hidden then there is never a position to give away -- it's already known. It's only if you make an attack while Hidden that you give away your position and lose Hidden.</p><p></p><p></p><p>If you are Hidden, you gain Unseen as above, so there is most definitely an offensive angle to being Hidden. The most common use of Hidden is to gain Unseen in situations where you would not ordinarily have it.</p><p></p><p>Secondly, the bolded is wrong. Take the example of invisible creatures -- they are Unseen, but you know their location, yet they can try to hide. Unless the creature you are hiding from is unaware of your existence before you Hide, then they will always know your location when you try to Hide.</p><p></p><p>Personally, I don't turn Hidden into a case where the opponent cannot know anything about where the creature is. Take this example: I see you clearly in my living room, and then you hide behind my couch where I cannot see you. I still can reason where you are, but you are still hiding. This is important because if you were a magician (stage, not spells) who had replaced my couch with a prop and ducked behind it to activate a secret internal compartment I did not know about, then my not seeing you after you duck behind the couch means that you can truly 'disappear' for when I round the couch to find you. In other words, the Hidden condition just allows new options to the Hider, it doesn't mean the watcher has lost all reasoning and cannot reason where you may be. It creates opportunity, just like when my friend who I saw duck behind the couch can still surprise me by popping up with their Nerf gun and firing before I can react -- even though I <em>knew </em>he we behind the couch.</p><p></p><p>Eh... while it's true Blinded doesn't have specific mechanical consequences, it does feed into the normal play loop: DM describes scene; player describes actions; DM determines if action is uncertain and, if so, resolves it with a check; DM describes outcomes, repeat. In the case of blindness, you telling me your character runs down the uneven cave passage in good light doesn't seem uncertain, so I narrate that it happens. If you're blind, that same action seems pretty uncertain to me, so I'll call for either a WIS or DEX check depending on how you describe your approach, and set the DC based on approach and goal as well (usually between 10 and 20, though and rarely 20). </p><p></p><p>In other words, the normal play loop already addresses issues like blindness. If you want to codify them more tightly for your table, absolutely welcome to -- whatever works for you and your group is great.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 7528925, member: 16814"] The bolded above belongs to Hidden, not Unseen. If you are Unseen but not Hidden then there is never a position to give away -- it's already known. It's only if you make an attack while Hidden that you give away your position and lose Hidden. If you are Hidden, you gain Unseen as above, so there is most definitely an offensive angle to being Hidden. The most common use of Hidden is to gain Unseen in situations where you would not ordinarily have it. Secondly, the bolded is wrong. Take the example of invisible creatures -- they are Unseen, but you know their location, yet they can try to hide. Unless the creature you are hiding from is unaware of your existence before you Hide, then they will always know your location when you try to Hide. Personally, I don't turn Hidden into a case where the opponent cannot know anything about where the creature is. Take this example: I see you clearly in my living room, and then you hide behind my couch where I cannot see you. I still can reason where you are, but you are still hiding. This is important because if you were a magician (stage, not spells) who had replaced my couch with a prop and ducked behind it to activate a secret internal compartment I did not know about, then my not seeing you after you duck behind the couch means that you can truly 'disappear' for when I round the couch to find you. In other words, the Hidden condition just allows new options to the Hider, it doesn't mean the watcher has lost all reasoning and cannot reason where you may be. It creates opportunity, just like when my friend who I saw duck behind the couch can still surprise me by popping up with their Nerf gun and firing before I can react -- even though I [I]knew [/I]he we behind the couch. Eh... while it's true Blinded doesn't have specific mechanical consequences, it does feed into the normal play loop: DM describes scene; player describes actions; DM determines if action is uncertain and, if so, resolves it with a check; DM describes outcomes, repeat. In the case of blindness, you telling me your character runs down the uneven cave passage in good light doesn't seem uncertain, so I narrate that it happens. If you're blind, that same action seems pretty uncertain to me, so I'll call for either a WIS or DEX check depending on how you describe your approach, and set the DC based on approach and goal as well (usually between 10 and 20, though and rarely 20). In other words, the normal play loop already addresses issues like blindness. If you want to codify them more tightly for your table, absolutely welcome to -- whatever works for you and your group is great. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Hiding and Blindness (updated)
Top