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Message: <blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 7529303" data-attributes="member: 71699">I think you'll probably agree that being unseen gives you advantage on attack rolls against creatures that can't see you. And that being hidden adds nothing to that, offensively. Possibly you'll also agree that being hidden is not only being unseen, it is being both unseen and unheard."What Can You See? One of the main factors in determining whether you can find a hidden creature or object is how well you can see in an area, which might be lightly or heavily obscured" / "A heavily obscured area--such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage--blocks vision entirely. A creature effectively suffers from the blinded condition when trying to see something in that area." So one reason I can try to hide is that vision of me is blocked entirely, right? We agree characters can usually try to hide when unseen."In a lightly obscured area, such as dim light, patchy fog, or moderate foliage, creatures have disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight." / Skulker Feat "You can try to hide when you are lightly obscured from the creature from which you are hiding". For that text in the Skulker to have meaning, it seems plausible to suppose that the baseline is that creatures can't try to hide when they are (only) lightly obscured. Wood Elf has similar text, seeming to require in addition some natural element such as "falling snow".Thus I believe that for characters who are not wood elves, lightfoot halflings, rangers or skulkers, it ends up being necessary to be unseen to try to hide. Because if it does not, wood elves and skulkers have elements with meaningless text, and I follow a principle that readings of a ruleset that let all text have meaning should be preferred over others that do not.Can you suggest a reading that allows that element of Skulker to matter, while at the same time not amounting to saying that without Skulker (or a similar trait, such as Mask of the Wild) one must be unseen to attempt to hide?</blockquote>

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