Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Hiding and Blindness (updated)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 7529481" data-attributes="member: 71699"><p>So this is where I have landed currently -</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #0000FF"><strong><u>Unseen, but not Unheard</u></strong></span></p><p><span style="color: #0000FF">Being unseen has offensive and defensive benefits, giving advantage or disadvantage depending on who sees whom. When you can’t see your target, you still know its location from the noise it makes, allowing you to target it with ranged and melee attacks.</span></p><p><span style="color: #0000FF">You stop being unseen if you show yourself, such as to aim a ranged attack at a target, unless you are concealed by magic or for some reason unobserved.</span></p><p><span style="color: #0000FF"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"><em>Why this?</em> I found in extensive play in the Underdark, where for a great many encounters the environment was either dark or dimly lit, and where drow added in magical <em>darkness</em> for good measure, that players needed a clear distinction between being unseen and being hidden: it had to be clear that hidden was a different thing from unseen. Players also wanted to know when they could attempt a hide check, <em>simpliciter</em>. At higher levels it also became important to be clear on what something like Greater Invisibility does. Additionally, two Warlocks with Devil's Sight and a drow Monk were often in a position where they could see creatures that could not see them, due to differences in vision ranges.</span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #0000FF"><strong><u>Unseen and Unheard: Hiding</u></strong></span></p><p><span style="color: #0000FF">Being hidden has a defensive benefit, forcing attackers to choose the square they think you are in when they attack you: automatically missing if incorrect. You become hidden, i.e. unseen and unheard, by taking the Hide action: you can try to hide if you are—</span></p><p><span style="color: #0000FF">• Heavily-obscured by such things as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage;</span></p><p><span style="color: #0000FF">• Concealed by an object that blocks vision entirely such as a creature two sizes larger than you;</span></p><p><span style="color: #0000FF">• Unobserved such as when a creature is distracted;</span></p><p><span style="color: #0000FF">• Unseen such as through an invisibility spell or a class ability.</span></p><p><span style="color: #0000FF">You stop being hidden when you are in a creature’s field of vision under circumstances that would prevent you attempting to hide from it, or make sounds that it can hear, or attack it.</span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"><em>Why this?</em> While characters are hidden they are always unseen. (Being hidden means you are unseen and unheard.) One option is to have two sets of stacked benefits - stating that being hidden gives you advantage/disadvantage etc depending on who sees whom <em>and</em> it makes attackers have to guess your square. Alternatively, one could say that the first part is attached to being unseen, and the second part is attached to being hidden (i.e. also unheard). I preferred that: it feels more elegant... less redundancy in the system.</span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #0000FF"><strong><u>Blinded</u></strong></span></p><p><span style="color: #0000FF">Attackers have advantage on their attack rolls against blinded creatures <u>that they can see</u>. Each foot of movement while blinded costs 1 extra foot of speed. To Dash you must make a Dexterity (Acrobatics) check (DC 12) or fall prone, unless you are in contact with a sighted guide.</span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"><em>Why this?</em> Again over a great many encounters involving questions about vision and stealth etc, I found a lack of mechanical difference between fighting in say a dense <em>fog cloud</em> versus fighting in a perfectly clear, well-lit room. That's because the advantage from attacking creatures that can't see you is cancelled out by the disadvantage of not being able to see them. Firing arrows into a <em>fog cloud</em> cast by an annis hag, for instance. There was narrative dissonance, and as a DM I was denied a chance to make combat slightly more varied. What the house rule does is <u>only</u> give advantage to attackers that can see their blinded (or effectively blinded) target. Similar dissonances arose over pursuits through darkness and so on. No one wanted anything clunky slowing down the action, so this came out as a good compromise.</span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="clearstream, post: 7529481, member: 71699"] So this is where I have landed currently - [COLOR=#0000FF][B][U]Unseen, but not Unheard[/U][/B] Being unseen has offensive and defensive benefits, giving advantage or disadvantage depending on who sees whom. When you can’t see your target, you still know its location from the noise it makes, allowing you to target it with ranged and melee attacks. You stop being unseen if you show yourself, such as to aim a ranged attack at a target, unless you are concealed by magic or for some reason unobserved. [/COLOR] [SIZE=2][I]Why this?[/I] I found in extensive play in the Underdark, where for a great many encounters the environment was either dark or dimly lit, and where drow added in magical [I]darkness[/I] for good measure, that players needed a clear distinction between being unseen and being hidden: it had to be clear that hidden was a different thing from unseen. Players also wanted to know when they could attempt a hide check, [I]simpliciter[/I]. At higher levels it also became important to be clear on what something like Greater Invisibility does. Additionally, two Warlocks with Devil's Sight and a drow Monk were often in a position where they could see creatures that could not see them, due to differences in vision ranges.[/SIZE] [COLOR=#0000FF][B][U]Unseen and Unheard: Hiding[/U][/B] Being hidden has a defensive benefit, forcing attackers to choose the square they think you are in when they attack you: automatically missing if incorrect. You become hidden, i.e. unseen and unheard, by taking the Hide action: you can try to hide if you are— • Heavily-obscured by such things as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage; • Concealed by an object that blocks vision entirely such as a creature two sizes larger than you; • Unobserved such as when a creature is distracted; • Unseen such as through an invisibility spell or a class ability. You stop being hidden when you are in a creature’s field of vision under circumstances that would prevent you attempting to hide from it, or make sounds that it can hear, or attack it.[/COLOR] [SIZE=2][I]Why this?[/I] While characters are hidden they are always unseen. (Being hidden means you are unseen and unheard.) One option is to have two sets of stacked benefits - stating that being hidden gives you advantage/disadvantage etc depending on who sees whom [I]and[/I] it makes attackers have to guess your square. Alternatively, one could say that the first part is attached to being unseen, and the second part is attached to being hidden (i.e. also unheard). I preferred that: it feels more elegant... less redundancy in the system.[/SIZE] [COLOR=#0000FF][B][U]Blinded[/U][/B] Attackers have advantage on their attack rolls against blinded creatures [U]that they can see[/U]. Each foot of movement while blinded costs 1 extra foot of speed. To Dash you must make a Dexterity (Acrobatics) check (DC 12) or fall prone, unless you are in contact with a sighted guide.[/COLOR] [SIZE=2][I]Why this?[/I] Again over a great many encounters involving questions about vision and stealth etc, I found a lack of mechanical difference between fighting in say a dense [I]fog cloud[/I] versus fighting in a perfectly clear, well-lit room. That's because the advantage from attacking creatures that can't see you is cancelled out by the disadvantage of not being able to see them. Firing arrows into a [I]fog cloud[/I] cast by an annis hag, for instance. There was narrative dissonance, and as a DM I was denied a chance to make combat slightly more varied. What the house rule does is [U]only[/U] give advantage to attackers that can see their blinded (or effectively blinded) target. Similar dissonances arose over pursuits through darkness and so on. No one wanted anything clunky slowing down the action, so this came out as a good compromise.[/SIZE] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Hiding and Blindness (updated)
Top