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Message: <blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 7529803" data-attributes="member: 71699">Yes, your focus on "not clearly seen" helped draw my attention to cases - such as with Skulker - where a character might be not-unseen but able to take the hide action. In such cases, I believe that successfully hiding makes them unseen. Those cases aren't intended to be usual so far as I can see, but if you think so - all power to you. I need to make a tweak and then it feels like I will have a resilient set of guidelines. I'll then cast the net wider and see what others have proposed to deal with these similar instances."Not clearly seen" is hedging language that includes a spectrum from unseen to, to some extent, seen. It applies precisely to my guidelines, as there are indeed cases across that spectrum where hiding is possible. The usual case, that characters without extenuating abilities can rely on, is unseen. A direct question then - do you concur that if a creature is in a situation that it is seen, such as in a dimly lit room with other creatures that can see it, and has a feat like Skulker; upon successfully hiding (beating all their passive or active perceptions) it becomes both unseen to those other creatures and its location is no longer known by them? Or do you think something else happens?</blockquote>