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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7530058" data-attributes="member: 16814">"Not clearly seen" is not a caveat that allows Skulker to work.  5e is exception based design and the general rules do not have call outs to the exceptions -- they're exceptions all on their own.  "Not clearly seen" is, in fact, the general case and are, in fact, the usual case.  Again to revisit formal logical construction, if all A is B that doesn't mean all B is A.  If A is unseen and B is "not clearly seen" then A is just a sub-case of B.  Your restriction to only A without exception purchased through character options actually limits play, it doesn't enhance it.For example, there's the trope of hiding behind a curtain.  Now, usually in this trope, the feet of the hider are visible, but that doesn't mean they aren't successful.  Yet, with your rule, unless an exception is purchased, there's no chance to be able to hide behind a curtain if your feet are visible because you are not unseen.  Using RAW, though, you can be "not clearly seen" and attempt to hide without a specific exception purchased.  A second example of this is the trope of spying through the cut out eyes of a portrait which turns out the same.  These are easy tropes that are possible under RAW but not your ruling.  Consider what issues you're adding to the game by restricting hiding to only when unseen or if you have a purchased exception.No, man, no.  If they meant the usual case to be you must be unseen, they would have written 'you must be unseen to hide.'  Instead they chose the very specific language -- errata'd even to be extra clear -- of "not seen clearly."  The rule is intentional and does not mean 'must be unseen unless you've bought a coupon with a special ability'.  The special abilities are already exceptions to the general rule.  You don't write a general rule to include the exceptions -- that's not how exception based design works, at all.  Again, I'll point out that the "not clearly seen" is a result of errata to the core rules to clarify intent, so they really mean it.I'm trying to be charitable, but this really makes it hard to understand where you're coming from.  You're asking me if skulker allows you to become unseen if you hide successfully in dim lighting.  The problem with this is that you initially said it's impossible for hiding to make you unseen (because you said you have to be unseen already to hide) and I pointed Skulker out to you specifically as a case where you can hide while seen and become unseen.  So, you're asking me if I agree that this happens as if I didn't already directly point this out to you as a correction to your understanding of RAW earlier in this thread!  How, exactly, am I supposed to take this question as honest engagement?</blockquote>

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