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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Abraxas" data-source="post: 1728267" data-attributes="member: 1266">Well lets reconstruct my long post. I'm gonna start with the PHB and the Rules of the Game article found <a href="http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040622a" target="_blank">here</a>.    As long as the rogue is not observed (by successfully hiding before melee begins, by moving to a location with total cover after melee begins, plus a couple other methods) she can hide from melee opponents.  In order to hide she must have cover or concealment.  If she has concealment from an opponent, the opponent has concealment from her, and she can't make a sneak attack (the sniping rules make an exception to this).  In order to sneak attack, the target must be denied their dex bonus (or be flanked - but thats a different discussion).  A rogue can hide while attacking - from the PHB, pg 76 "It’s practically impossible (–20 penalty) to hide while attacking, running or charging." - but suffers a -20 penalty while doing so.  To figure out what happens you have to make a couple decisions.   1) How does hiding deny a target it's dex bonus?  Is it because the target is unaware and therefore flat footed?  The info on Unaware Combatants in the PHB on pg. 137 only talks about the beginning of combat and the surprise round.  Also, unlike the description of the balance skill and a few other skill/feats that specifically describe being flat footed, the hide skill has no such language.  Or is hiding like being invisible, causing the target to lose their dex bonus and giving the sneak attacker a +2 to her attack roll?   2) When does the rogue stop hiding?  Does she stop hiding as soon as she begins her attack or after she has made her attack.  If you believe the former as soon as the rogue begins her attack she is no longer hiding, she would have to make another hide check with the -20 penalty, and if successful the attack is a sneak attack.  If the latter suits your fancy, the target does not become aware of the rogue until after the attack, the attack is a sneak attack and the rogue would not have to make a hide check with the -20 penalty unless she wanted to remain hidden after the attack. So, what to do?  This is how I'm going to handle it for melee attacks from now on. 1. A successful use of the hide skill is the equivalent of being invisible, the target loses their Dex bonus and the hidden character gets a +2 to their attack roll. 2. A hidden attacker stops hiding as soon as they begin to attack (or begin to move for the attack) unless they make a successful hide check with the -20 penalty.  If successful, they remain hidden during the attack and the attack is a sneak attack. 3. If the hidden attacker did not have to move at all to make the attack they can then move up to 1/2 their speed and make a hide check (or move up to their speed and make a hide check at -5).  If this check is successful they remain hidden after the attack. Basically, I'm ignoring the rules of the game article making all hide checks at least a move action in and of themselves. I'm sticking with just the PHB where hiding is Action Type: Usually None - this allows the character to combine a hide check with the attack and still have some movement to get away.</blockquote>

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