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Message: <blockquote data-quote="gribble" data-source="post: 4873805" data-attributes="member: 12430">Ok, I have to reply to this because I think I'm being a bit misunderstood:When I said "generalist", I said it in the context of the 3e generalist. 14s across the board got you:+2 to hit and damage with ranged attacks+2 to hit and damage with melee attacks+2 hp/level+2 AC+2 to Fort, Ref, Will saves+2 skill points per level+2 to every skillIn conjunction with the right class and/or multiclassing the above meant something and you could make an effective character. Not stellar at any one thing, but not a dead weight either. By high levels (all else being equal) the difference between the above fighter and one who started with an 18 was that you had -2 to hit and -2 (-3 with a 2H weapon) to damage. Pretty inconsequential stuff in 3e combat really, and when you consider how much better your skills were (and that most of your saves were a couple of points higher) it was a worthwhile trade.Sure, in 4e you get mostly the same numerical benefits (minus the skill points), but in the context of the system the secondary bonuses seem to mean a lot less. And the primary bonus means a lot more - a +2 bonus to hit and damage in 4e is a pretty big thing, right across all levels of play.This player went into 4e with the same attitude as 3e. He got burned. You're absolutely right - in 4e you just can't be that general with your ability scores. In 4e an effective generalist isn't someone who is good at everything but exceptional at nothing. It's someone who does everything he does exceptionally well. Anyone in 4e who isn't "exceptional" at something might as well not bother. If you aren't trained in a skill? Don't bother rolling it. Low Str and no melee training feat? Don't bother with those basic melee attacks.Sure, you can be a "generalist" by picking up skill training. You then go from "don't bother" to "exceptional" territory - you aren't just "good" at it. Want to do some healing? Pick up a multiclass feat. You're now are as good as the party leader (admittedly once per day, but that one time you do it, you're just as good). I know, because my character in the game is a Warlord who multiclassed into Wizard. He's now both the party controller and the party leader and he's exceptional at both. He heals as good as another other leader, and he is just as good as any other controller with his Evards in the first 5 encounters of the day, followed up by his at will thunderwave to push enemies who escape back into the Evards. He is a 4e "generalist" - exceptional (i.e.: "specialised") at everything he does.I'm not taking a position on whether it's a good or bad thing - it is what it is. But if you go into it not realising how bad trying to be generalist is in 4e, you will get burned (especially at Epic levels).And that really is the last I'll say (somewhat) off-topic.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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