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<blockquote data-quote="WalterKovacs" data-source="post: 4874818" data-attributes="member: 63763">The group I'm currently running through the WOTC adventure modules is fairly optimized. The Barbarian and Warlord were 16 str to start, the fighter and wizard had 18 in str and int respectively, while the rogue went with 20. The rogue is a daggermaser, so above and beyond everyone else, has the best to hit chance in the party. Even then, the group is relatively balanced with each other. Most of the fights are pretty easy for them, but that is because Trolls consist mostly of Brutes and they are very easy to hit (unless you are going after Fort). They've had two challenging fights recently ... one involving a second encounter interupting the first, and the other involved a roper which rendered most of the melee fighters useless against the 'main' monster and it was hard to hit on it's own.&nbsp;They haven't hit level 15 yet, but everyone has taken expertise.&nbsp;The monsters do get more exciting, and the players get a bit more options. so I definitely like the low paragon a bit more than some of the earlier play. I would agree though that homebrew campaigns designed with the PCs in mind might be a bit more challenging than just the 'straight' adventure paths provide. There is a gap between ultra optimized (the rogue) and less optimized (the barbarian/warlord), but even a +3 gap hasn't been that nasty. Even when the warlord was +4 behind, it wasn't too bad ...the rogue was basically +2 above the 'baseline' while the warlord was +1 to +2 behind it. The game is a little forgiving, but not to the point where you can start at 14's in your attack stat AND not take expertise AND not raise them at every chance and be comparable to someone that started 2 ahead, upped it at every opportunity and took a feat for an extra +2.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="WalterKovacs, post: 4874818, member: 63763"] The group I'm currently running through the WOTC adventure modules is fairly optimized. The Barbarian and Warlord were 16 str to start, the fighter and wizard had 18 in str and int respectively, while the rogue went with 20. The rogue is a daggermaser, so above and beyond everyone else, has the best to hit chance in the party. Even then, the group is relatively balanced with each other. Most of the fights are pretty easy for them, but that is because Trolls consist mostly of Brutes and they are very easy to hit (unless you are going after Fort). They've had two challenging fights recently ... one involving a second encounter interupting the first, and the other involved a roper which rendered most of the melee fighters useless against the 'main' monster and it was hard to hit on it's own. They haven't hit level 15 yet, but everyone has taken expertise. The monsters do get more exciting, and the players get a bit more options. so I definitely like the low paragon a bit more than some of the earlier play. I would agree though that homebrew campaigns designed with the PCs in mind might be a bit more challenging than just the 'straight' adventure paths provide. There is a gap between ultra optimized (the rogue) and less optimized (the barbarian/warlord), but even a +3 gap hasn't been that nasty. Even when the warlord was +4 behind, it wasn't too bad ...the rogue was basically +2 above the 'baseline' while the warlord was +1 to +2 behind it. The game is a [i]little[/i] forgiving, but not to the point where you can start at 14's in your attack stat AND not take expertise AND not raise them at every chance and be comparable to someone that started 2 ahead, upped it at every opportunity and took a feat for an extra +2. [/QUOTE]

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