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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6021293" data-attributes="member: 4937">Oh. OK, I can explain that.It's because you said this: "I'm making general statements rather than specific, but specifically addressing high-level NPCs that are often a point of complaint (ie, what is there for PCs to do? Why doesn't Khelben/Elminster/Mordenkainen/Rary handle it?)"At that point, it seemed like you were defending the existance and usage of Khelben and Eliminster, and people then responded, "Errr... yeah, but those points of complaint are legitimate."  I would suggest that a lot of people have direct experience with badly thought out high level NPC's, and in particular with 2nd Edition Forgotten Realms and the way that the existance of large numbers of high level NPC's undermines D&D core story and core gameplay.  I would suggest that a lot of players have seen high-level Wizard NPC's dominate the story line, and that a lot of DM's have seen high-level PC Wizards dominate game play and seemingly 'get out of control.  Particularly in 2e and 3e, there isn't a lot of reason why high-level PC Wizards can't do whatever they want.  The problem is that Glen Cook's wizards aren't D&D wizards of arbitrarily high level, and your inference isn't really applicable if you are trying to say that Glen Cook's ideas are somehow universally applicable to all wizards or settings.  For one thing, it really only takes one to break the mold of uninvolved, and then that's enough.  For another, Glen Cook's narrative control as a sole author serves as heavier handed deus ex mechina than anything that happens in a RPG with multiple authors contributing to a story.  Just because it works in a story, doesn't mean that it works in an RPG.  There are a ton of story conventions that you better chuck out of the window if you are relying on them to occur in an RPG.See, you say that, and I'm like, "How many 17th and higher level wizards have you seen played for an extensive period in the hands of a capable player?  How much time have you actually spent playing in Greyhawk or Faerun, according to cannon, and particularly in 2e Forgotten Realms modules?"  Because you know, archmages are superhuman in D&D - and that's not an opinion.  I mean, wizards are already as powerful as many comic book superheroes when they are just slinging 6th level spells; by the time the 9th level spells are coming on line we are several orders of magnitude beyond mere superhuman.Huh?  I'm sorry that your point wasn't as well recieved as you thought it was going to be, but how in the world does it follow that if I don't think a novels conventions are fully adaptable to an RPG with entirely different conventions, that I won't like the novel?</blockquote>

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