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<blockquote data-quote="rushlight" data-source="post: 1687941" data-attributes="member: 3801">Here's how I see it:&nbsp;1) &quot;Extraplanar&quot; is a modifier to a creature type.&nbsp; Just like some creatures are &quot;cold&quot; creatures - those creatures have the &quot;cold&quot; subtype, and that has specific game effects.&nbsp; It doesn't just mean they need a jacket.&nbsp; See the entry for &quot;Angel, Solar&quot; on page 12 of the Monster Manual.&nbsp; That creature is defined as &quot;Large Outsider (Angel, Extraplanar, Good).&nbsp; The same goes for Demons, Devils, and other creatures.&nbsp; Other types can be &quot;Extraplanar&quot;.&nbsp; The Etheral Marauder is a Magical Beast (Extraplanar), and elementals are Elemental (Extraplanar).&nbsp; Rakashaa and Planetouched are Outsider (Native).&nbsp; &nbsp;By my reading of the spell, and the definition of the &quot;Extraplanar&quot; subtype on page 309 of the MM it seems to me that creatures native to the Material Plane are not valid targets for the Gate spell.&nbsp;2) Even if I were to concede the &quot;Extraplanar&quot; thing, you still totally missed the boat the &quot;Unique&quot; creature references. The spell clearly states that if you call a specific creature, rather than a creature type, it is uncontrolled.&nbsp;&nbsp;If you select a type (&quot;I'd like an Angel, Solar please&quot;) INSTEAD of a known INDIVIDUAL (&quot;I'd like Bob the Solar Angel who made the wizard eat his own foot that one time&quot;)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;So, if you've chosen the &quot;kind of creature&quot; option, this part of the spell text indicates the HD requirements for you to establish control.&nbsp; If you've chosen the &quot;known individual&quot; option, then these rules don't apply.&nbsp; (Hence, the &quot;IF&quot; at the beginning.&nbsp; If both options allowed control, it would say &quot;When you choose to call a creature...&quot; and there would be no difference between &quot;a type of creature&quot; and &quot;a known individual&quot;.)&nbsp;Anway, the second part of the &quot;If&quot; statement follows:&nbsp;&nbsp;The references to calling a specific creature state that they choose if they want to come through, and if the do, they are uncontrolled.&nbsp; And at the end of the spell it states that doing so can be dangerous.&nbsp; &nbsp;It is fairly clear.&nbsp; The only thing that they could have done better would have been if they had driven by your house, and explained it to you personally.&nbsp; &nbsp;As for the whole &quot;Let's call a CR 30 guy to go and fight that CR 20 guy for us so we get XP!&nbsp; Yeah!&quot; thing - this is a problem with the players (and DM) not the spell.&nbsp; What kind of fun is it to let the DM play one monster versus another and give the PCs Xp for it?&nbsp; The DM doesn't need to allow this obviously dumb idea if he doesn't want to.&nbsp; Or he can just assume that everything goes as planned - and just make all the PCs 208,439,028,750,432th level since they would just use Gate after Gate.&nbsp; Then he can roll up their treasure and they can be RICH d00d!!11!1!&nbsp; And then they can do it all again!&nbsp; Woo!&nbsp; We're 371T3!&nbsp; w3 R0XX0r!!&nbsp;So sure, if your players are powermonger d00ds who are there to only gain XP and gold without any shred of role-playing skill at all, and the DM is fine with running one monster against another for eternity while the players watch and count XP then yes, perhaps under those circumstances, the Gate spell might get misused.&nbsp; But honestly, if that's the gaming environment you are in, can you really blame the spell for your gaming conditions?&nbsp;Where's the *roll eyes* smiley when you need it.&nbsp; If you can't see that the problem there is the players (and DM) then there really is no way of reaching you.&nbsp; I can only thank the stars you've got no real ability to actually change the game.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="rushlight, post: 1687941, member: 3801"] Here's how I see it: 1) "Extraplanar" is a modifier to a creature type. Just like some creatures are "cold" creatures - those creatures have the "cold" subtype, and that has specific game effects. It doesn't just mean they need a jacket. See the entry for "Angel, Solar" on page 12 of the Monster Manual. That creature is defined as "Large Outsider (Angel, [b]Extraplanar[/b], Good). The same goes for Demons, Devils, and other creatures. Other types can be "Extraplanar". The Etheral Marauder is a Magical Beast (Extraplanar), and elementals are Elemental (Extraplanar). Rakashaa and Planetouched are Outsider (Native). By my reading of the spell, and the definition of the "Extraplanar" subtype on page 309 of the MM it seems to me that creatures native to the Material Plane are not valid targets for the [i]Gate[/i] spell. 2) Even if I were to concede the "Extraplanar" thing, you still totally missed the boat the "Unique" creature references. The spell clearly states that if you call a specific creature, rather than a creature type, it is uncontrolled. If you select a type ("I'd like an Angel, Solar please") INSTEAD of a known INDIVIDUAL ("I'd like Bob the Solar Angel who made the wizard eat his own foot that one time") So, if you've chosen the "kind of creature" option, this part of the spell text indicates the HD requirements for you to establish control. If you've chosen the "known individual" option, then these rules don't apply. (Hence, the "IF" at the beginning. If both options allowed control, it would say "[u]When[/u] you choose to call a creature..." and there would be no difference between "a type of creature" and "a known individual".) Anway, the second part of the "If" statement follows: The references to calling a specific creature state that they choose if they want to come through, and if the do, they are uncontrolled. And at the end of the spell it states that doing so can be dangerous. It is fairly clear. The only thing that they could have done better would have been if they had driven by your house, and explained it to you personally. As for the whole "Let's call a CR 30 guy to go and fight that CR 20 guy for us so we get XP! Yeah!" thing - this is a problem with the players (and DM) not the spell. What kind of fun is it to let the DM play one monster versus another and give the PCs Xp for it? The DM doesn't need to allow this obviously dumb idea if he doesn't want to. Or he can just assume that everything goes as planned - and just make all the PCs 208,439,028,750,432th level since they would just use [i]Gate[/i] after [i]Gate. [/i]Then he can roll up their treasure and they can be [b]RICH[/b] d00d!!11!1! And then they can do it all again! Woo! We're 371T3! w3 R0XX0r!! So sure, if your players are powermonger d00ds who are there to only gain XP and gold without any shred of role-playing skill at all, and the DM is fine with running one monster against another for eternity while the players watch and count XP then yes, perhaps under those circumstances, the [i]Gate[/i] spell might get misused. But honestly, if that's the gaming environment you are in, can you [b]really[/b] blame the spell for your gaming conditions? Where's the *roll eyes* smiley when you need it. If you can't see that the problem there is the players (and DM) then there really is no way of reaching you. I can only thank the stars you've got no real ability to actually change the game. [/QUOTE]

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