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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ruleslawyer" data-source="post: 1688928" data-attributes="member: 1757">A solar is unlikely to go down in an encounter appropriate for 17th-level PCs; you'd have a TPK long before the solar died. And if you have to boost encounter levels to "overwhelming" simply to account for gate: It's broken. Period.No it isn't. The fact that even an encounter of CR = EPL, which is something that a party doesn't even need gate to handle, yields net xp when gate is used means that it's worth using gate even when you don't "have" to! So what if it takes me 44 encounters of CR = EPL to advance a level? For one thing, those encounters will individually take a LOT less time. For another, all boss encounters are written at a CR >> party level, and the party will use gate all the time to trump those. Any spell that lets the party walk through every single boss encounter AND treat CR = EPL encounters as speed bumps is broken. You need to read the rules, my friend. For one thing, "extraplanar" is a relative type; it simply refers to the fact that you're from a plane different than the one the spellcaster's on when he casts gate.Second, if you're playing with 3.5 gate, you need to use 3.5 abominations. From the ELH 3.5 Update booklet, p.11:Abomination, Anaxim: Construct (Extraplanar, Lawful)Abomination, Atropal: Undead (Evil, Extraplanar, Lawful)Abomination, Chichimec: Outsider (Air, Evil, Extraplanar)Abomination, Dream Larva: Outsider (Chaotic, Evil, Extraplanar)etc.If you're not playing by the rules anyway, why bother defending gate out of the box?It seems that you also should read the Monster Manual.From the Types, Subtypes, and Special Abilities chapter:Spell-Like: Spell-like abilities are magical and work just like spells (though they are not spells and so have no verbal, somatic, material, focus, or XP components). This is a gross misinterpretation of the spell; again, if you're not playing by the rules, I can see perfectly how you don't see a problem with the spell.It is therefore quite clear that you can call "particular individuals" through the gate, willing or unwilling. The "deities and unique beings" clearly means something else, and in fact must mean something else in order for the spell to be written in a manner that isn't completely self-contradictory (in which case it's broken as written anyway). "Unique beings" is most consistently interpretable as "beings with no other species counterpart." Thus deities, unique dragons like Bahamut and Tiamat, and archfiends. PCs and most NPCs, whether humans, elves, illithids, or gold dragons, are not "unique beings" by this definition. They are, of course, "particular individuals," who can be called through "willing or unwilling."If, OTOH, you assume that only "a random [being]" is called by gate, then you have drastically altered the spell, which is otherwise known as a house rule or a "nerf." And here I thought you believed that all the core spells were playable out of the box! I've given you plenty of examples of possible abuses.  Here are some actual ones:1) An NPC halfling rogue armed with a scroll of MDJ stripping away my 21st-level party's buff spells and destroying several valuable items, making them easy prey for the orcs and (3.0) balor I threw at them (a CR 19 encounter), causing two PC deaths, and causing the barbarian player to practically launch himself across the table at me in rage when I told him his +3 green dragon armor had been disenchanted forever.2) The mind flayer PC in a "play the bad guys" one shot who figured out that astral projection allows you to double your character wealth by creating astral copies and then going back and picking up the physical copies. I hit him with the DM shovel, but still.3) The wizard player who used shapechange and buffs to turn into a great gold wyrm (prior to the 3.5 errata) and destroy an entire Zhentarim army fielded against him, then shifted into an iron golem, waded through Darkhold's magical defenses, and walked right into the boss encounter by himself (forcing the BBEG to flee his minions in panic) while the rest of the players sat twiddling their thumbs.It goes on and on. I've never allowed gate as written IMC for this reason. Even with my house rules, the PCs use it on occasion, but only when the situation is truly dire. Also, to reiterate an earlier post: The DM can make anything work, because the DM can change rules however he wants. If spells like gate work fine in your games, good for you; just don't pretend you're playing by the RAW, because you're not. The point is that the 9th-level spells are not written well to be played out of the box, which is hong's point (however extremely he chooses to make it) to begin with.</blockquote>

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