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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 6042956" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>Quote:</p><p>&nbsp;&lt;table border=&quot;0&quot; cellpadding=&quot;6&quot; cellspacing=&quot;0&quot; width=&quot;100%&quot;&gt; &lt;tbody&gt;&lt;tr&gt; &lt;td class=&quot;alt2&quot; style=&quot;border:1px inset&quot;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Originally posted by <strong>Mike Mearls</strong></p><p>&nbsp;<em>We're also moving&nbsp; away from giving you a lot of stuff at each&nbsp; level. In most cases, you&nbsp; get a spell or a class feature. This means&nbsp; casters get fewer&nbsp; spells—more on that later—and that most characters&nbsp; have about five to&nbsp; ten things to manage at 10th level. Beyond 10th,&nbsp; we're cutting back the&nbsp; rate at which you get even more stuff. Characters&nbsp; are simpler and&nbsp; easier to play, and DMs should have a much easier time&nbsp; tracking what&nbsp; the party can get away with.</em> &lt;/td&gt; &lt;/tr&gt; &lt;/tbody&gt;&lt;/table&gt; </p><p>&nbsp;Its&nbsp; always been my experience that Epic Level gaming is dysfunctional not&nbsp; from the player's side of the screen, but primarily from the DM's side&nbsp; of the screen.&nbsp; Neither sheer number of choice amongst PC resource&nbsp; deployment nor tracking of deployed resources sows this dysfunction, but&nbsp; rather game-narrowing unconstrained potency amidst those&nbsp; resources...and typically only a select few.&nbsp; Great Epic Level games are&nbsp; short-circuited by Teleport, Divinations, Geas, Flying, Polymorph,&nbsp; Wish, etc.&nbsp; When you have resources on your character sheet that&nbsp; basically say &quot;nullify this type of adventure&quot; or &quot;castrate the&nbsp; climactic impact of this type of challenge&quot;, the game changes.&nbsp; When&nbsp; they cover enough territory, the breadth and scope of possible adventure&nbsp; angles narrow such that the game becomes stale and ends.&nbsp; That is the&nbsp; problem with Epic Level.&nbsp; Not number of resources or tracking...but&nbsp; potency.&nbsp; I'm baffled by the above paragraph.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;&nbsp; Quote:</p><p>&nbsp;&lt;table border=&quot;0&quot; cellpadding=&quot;6&quot; cellspacing=&quot;0&quot; width=&quot;100%&quot;&gt; &lt;tbody&gt;&lt;tr&gt; &lt;td class=&quot;alt2&quot; style=&quot;border:1px inset&quot;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Originally posted by <strong>Mike Mearls</strong></p><p>&nbsp;<strong></strong><em>Finally, collapsing&nbsp; abilities at high levels makes those individual&nbsp; abilities more&nbsp; powerful. Characters should grow stronger, and if we're&nbsp; delivering&nbsp; power in fewer class features or spell slots, those specific&nbsp; abilities&nbsp; can afford to be quite powerful. We can deliver the promise of&nbsp; a&nbsp; high-level character in a manner that is easier for players to&nbsp;&nbsp; understand and for DMs to plan around.</em> &lt;/td&gt; &lt;/tr&gt; &lt;/tbody&gt;&lt;/table&gt; </p><p>&nbsp; Ummm.&nbsp; If 1 above is true, I fail to understand how this bit addresses&nbsp; the problem.&nbsp; In fact all it does is exacerbate it.&nbsp; If they're going&nbsp; the route of LESS RESOURCES FOR MOAR POWER, then I would say that they&nbsp; actually have the formula exactly wrong.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;&nbsp; Quote:</p><p>&nbsp;&lt;table border=&quot;0&quot; cellpadding=&quot;6&quot; cellspacing=&quot;0&quot; width=&quot;100%&quot;&gt; &lt;tbody&gt;&lt;tr&gt; &lt;td class=&quot;alt2&quot; style=&quot;border:1px inset&quot;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Originally posted by <strong>Mike Mearls</strong></p><p>&nbsp;<strong></strong><em>That's just the base&nbsp; assumption, though. We want a game where you&nbsp; can continue looting&nbsp; dungeons to level 20 if that's what you want. If&nbsp; you want the game to&nbsp; change, you can implement options we're calling the&nbsp; legacy system.&nbsp; Under this system, a rogue can found a thieves' guild, a&nbsp; cleric can&nbsp; establish a temple, a fighter can gain a stronghold and&nbsp; followers, and a&nbsp; wizard can research new spells. The legacy system&nbsp; speaks to your&nbsp; characters' place in the world and, in a literal sense,&nbsp; the legacy he&nbsp; or she will leave behind.</em> &lt;/td&gt; &lt;/tr&gt; &lt;/tbody&gt;&lt;/table&gt; </p><p>&nbsp;Sounds&nbsp; good...so long as they are backed by functional, robust mechanics.&nbsp; If&nbsp; we have mini-games/sub-systems that allow &quot;Sim-Epic Archetype Syndicate&quot;&nbsp; that interfaces nicely with the mechanics for actually playing your PC&nbsp; through an adventure, then the layfolk shall rejoice.</p></blockquote><p></p>

[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 6042956, member: 6696971"] Quote: <table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset"> Originally posted by [B]Mike Mearls[/B] [I]We're also moving away from giving you a lot of stuff at each level. In most cases, you get a spell or a class feature. This means casters get fewer spells—more on that later—and that most characters have about five to ten things to manage at 10th level. Beyond 10th, we're cutting back the rate at which you get even more stuff. Characters are simpler and easier to play, and DMs should have a much easier time tracking what the party can get away with.[/I] </td> </tr> </tbody></table> Its always been my experience that Epic Level gaming is dysfunctional not from the player's side of the screen, but primarily from the DM's side of the screen. Neither sheer number of choice amongst PC resource deployment nor tracking of deployed resources sows this dysfunction, but rather game-narrowing unconstrained potency amidst those resources...and typically only a select few. Great Epic Level games are short-circuited by Teleport, Divinations, Geas, Flying, Polymorph, Wish, etc. When you have resources on your character sheet that basically say "nullify this type of adventure" or "castrate the climactic impact of this type of challenge", the game changes. When they cover enough territory, the breadth and scope of possible adventure angles narrow such that the game becomes stale and ends. That is the problem with Epic Level. Not number of resources or tracking...but potency. I'm baffled by the above paragraph. Quote: <table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset"> Originally posted by [B]Mike Mearls [/B][I]Finally, collapsing abilities at high levels makes those individual abilities more powerful. Characters should grow stronger, and if we're delivering power in fewer class features or spell slots, those specific abilities can afford to be quite powerful. We can deliver the promise of a high-level character in a manner that is easier for players to understand and for DMs to plan around.[/I] </td> </tr> </tbody></table> Ummm. If 1 above is true, I fail to understand how this bit addresses the problem. In fact all it does is exacerbate it. If they're going the route of LESS RESOURCES FOR MOAR POWER, then I would say that they actually have the formula exactly wrong. Quote: <table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset"> Originally posted by [B]Mike Mearls [/B][I]That's just the base assumption, though. We want a game where you can continue looting dungeons to level 20 if that's what you want. If you want the game to change, you can implement options we're calling the legacy system. Under this system, a rogue can found a thieves' guild, a cleric can establish a temple, a fighter can gain a stronghold and followers, and a wizard can research new spells. The legacy system speaks to your characters' place in the world and, in a literal sense, the legacy he or she will leave behind.[/I] </td> </tr> </tbody></table> Sounds good...so long as they are backed by functional, robust mechanics. If we have mini-games/sub-systems that allow "Sim-Epic Archetype Syndicate" that interfaces nicely with the mechanics for actually playing your PC through an adventure, then the layfolk shall rejoice. [/QUOTE]

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