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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 8245442" data-attributes="member: 12731"><p>Well... you can't both have your cake and eat it too. For example, if you feature a level 14 dragon it will indeed be fearsome to, say, a level 10 party. But there's no way to keep the respect once the heroes have leveled eight times or so.</p><p></p><p>This is just a fundamental property of Pathfinder 2's very contained and very balanced gameplay.</p><p></p><p>Any monster four levels lower is lunch to the heroes, full stop. Doesn't matter what type of monster, the level indicates its capabilities. You need no other statistic to determine the threat - the level says it all. (Sure there are easier and harder monsters on a given level, but very rarely does the variance transcend a whole level up or down)</p><p></p><p>So if you don't want heroes of any level to be able to trivialize a fully grown dragon, you need to make sure every such dragon is maybe level 19 or higher. This is because at level 20, a hero might be more powerful than a level 19 monster, but at least defeating it isn't trivial.</p><p></p><p>If you want to include such a dragon before then, simply stop playing before the heroes reach such a high level.</p><p></p><p>PS. I actually agree dragons should be high level threats. I never use "wyrmlings" for that reason. Both 5E and PF2 includes dragons of different age categories for the specific reason "we want to let heroes of every level be able to kill a dragon", but I personally find it inappropriate and anticlimactic to feature dragons before the heroes are at least level 10:ish.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 8245442, member: 12731"] Well... you can't both have your cake and eat it too. For example, if you feature a level 14 dragon it will indeed be fearsome to, say, a level 10 party. But there's no way to keep the respect once the heroes have leveled eight times or so. This is just a fundamental property of Pathfinder 2's very contained and very balanced gameplay. Any monster four levels lower is lunch to the heroes, full stop. Doesn't matter what type of monster, the level indicates its capabilities. You need no other statistic to determine the threat - the level says it all. (Sure there are easier and harder monsters on a given level, but very rarely does the variance transcend a whole level up or down) So if you don't want heroes of any level to be able to trivialize a fully grown dragon, you need to make sure every such dragon is maybe level 19 or higher. This is because at level 20, a hero might be more powerful than a level 19 monster, but at least defeating it isn't trivial. If you want to include such a dragon before then, simply stop playing before the heroes reach such a high level. PS. I actually agree dragons should be high level threats. I never use "wyrmlings" for that reason. Both 5E and PF2 includes dragons of different age categories for the specific reason "we want to let heroes of every level be able to kill a dragon", but I personally find it inappropriate and anticlimactic to feature dragons before the heroes are at least level 10:ish. [/QUOTE]
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