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High tier Fighter − the mythic warrior
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<blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 9073360" data-attributes="member: 6795602"><p>I’d suggest that there is nothing any fictional martial can do out of combat without the equivalent of spells or magic that is remotely close to what a level 20 d&d wizard can do out of combat.</p><p></p><p>In combat there’s at least a discussion to be had. Feats, magic items, a good subclass and multiclassing can really increase martial damage output.</p><p></p><p>Which leads me to this observation - martials will never be able to match current d&d style high level wizards in out of combat capabilities. The fiction just doesn’t support this. </p><p></p><p>*There is a question about whether that matters. For example if you need fly to get to the bbeg boss and you don’t have it then you either find an NPC or quest to help, go on a different quest, or the dm brings the bbeg boss to you. In any event the campaign goes on just fine.</p><p></p><p>All that said I’m all for shrinking the martial /caster out of combat divide by giving martials nicer out of combat abilities! But the truth is that without a nerf to wizards, that divide is always going to exist and so any attempted solution involving just giving martials out of combat abilities is really a non-solution.</p><p></p><p>What is needed is for martials to have a clear combat niche that wizards cannot override.</p><p></p><p>Ideally martials should be much tougher to hit, much more durable, much more mobile and have much more single target damaging than every wizard of the same level.</p><p></p><p>Wizards still have aoe, control, counterspell, buffs, etc. they’ll be fine in combat and maybe overall still better than martials, but at least martials get a clearly defined niche.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FrogReaver, post: 9073360, member: 6795602"] I’d suggest that there is nothing any fictional martial can do out of combat without the equivalent of spells or magic that is remotely close to what a level 20 d&d wizard can do out of combat. In combat there’s at least a discussion to be had. Feats, magic items, a good subclass and multiclassing can really increase martial damage output. Which leads me to this observation - martials will never be able to match current d&d style high level wizards in out of combat capabilities. The fiction just doesn’t support this. *There is a question about whether that matters. For example if you need fly to get to the bbeg boss and you don’t have it then you either find an NPC or quest to help, go on a different quest, or the dm brings the bbeg boss to you. In any event the campaign goes on just fine. All that said I’m all for shrinking the martial /caster out of combat divide by giving martials nicer out of combat abilities! But the truth is that without a nerf to wizards, that divide is always going to exist and so any attempted solution involving just giving martials out of combat abilities is really a non-solution. What is needed is for martials to have a clear combat niche that wizards cannot override. Ideally martials should be much tougher to hit, much more durable, much more mobile and have much more single target damaging than every wizard of the same level. Wizards still have aoe, control, counterspell, buffs, etc. they’ll be fine in combat and maybe overall still better than martials, but at least martials get a clearly defined niche. [/QUOTE]
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