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<blockquote data-quote="fireinthedust" data-source="post: 4811812" data-attributes="member: 51930">In a recent Ampersand, for this month's Dragon Magazine, Bill Slavisek mentions something about higher than level 30 games.&nbsp; Now, my understanding is that 4e caps at level 30.&nbsp; Granted, one could do the math and presto, you get to Tiamat rather than stopping at Orcus.&nbsp; HOWEVER my impression was that a 30 level cap was supposed to be the highest one could get to with 4e, as a design philosophy.I used to own Throne of Bloodstone.&nbsp; I have the 3e Epic Level Handbook.&nbsp; I realize that going past the highest levels of the game is a tradition, but in this case I think it's missing the point.&nbsp; High level back in the day fought deities, avatars, etc.&nbsp; What the Epic Levels of 4e are managing to do is just that.&nbsp; There aren't baddies that matter of that level, or they detract from the ones already present.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Paragon was the top for older editions, with Epic being the level beyond that.&nbsp; Epic essentially just took Paragon and went one step further, having the heroes fighting Orcus and other monsters who, in 3e, had various stats ranging from 28 to versions that could be used in 100 level games.&nbsp; Rather than just mind flayers and great wyrms, of course.In the case of 4e, I don't see the point.&nbsp; This is what Epic already does.&nbsp; Anything more is simply &quot;my character can beat up your character&quot;.&nbsp; I see it as eroding the structure in place rather than building on top of it.&nbsp; I also don't know that the Epic Levels have anywhere near enough material support for complete campaigns as it is, let alone another tier on top of it for... what?Obviously, thoughts on this?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="fireinthedust, post: 4811812, member: 51930"] In a recent Ampersand, for this month's Dragon Magazine, Bill Slavisek mentions something about higher than level 30 games. Now, my understanding is that 4e caps at level 30. Granted, one could do the math and presto, you get to Tiamat rather than stopping at Orcus. HOWEVER my impression was that a 30 level cap was supposed to be the highest one could get to with 4e, as a design philosophy. I used to own Throne of Bloodstone. I have the 3e Epic Level Handbook. I realize that going past the highest levels of the game is a tradition, but in this case I think it's missing the point. High level back in the day fought deities, avatars, etc. What the Epic Levels of 4e are managing to do is just that. There aren't baddies that matter of that level, or they detract from the ones already present. Paragon was the top for older editions, with Epic being the level beyond that. Epic essentially just took Paragon and went one step further, having the heroes fighting Orcus and other monsters who, in 3e, had various stats ranging from 28 to versions that could be used in 100 level games. Rather than just mind flayers and great wyrms, of course. In the case of 4e, I don't see the point. This is what Epic already does. Anything more is simply "my character can beat up your character". I see it as eroding the structure in place rather than building on top of it. I also don't know that the Epic Levels have anywhere near enough material support for complete campaigns as it is, let alone another tier on top of it for... what? Obviously, thoughts on this? [/QUOTE]

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