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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Upper_Krust" data-source="post: 4811869" data-attributes="member: 326">Howdy fireinthedust! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I think with minor tweaking the math can be scaled up. I am planning two new tiers (Legendary and Immortal) for my 4E Immortals Handbook. Though first I am going to release some Monster Books so that DMs will have enough monsters when they do decide to have epic and then even 31+ campaigns.Thats a valid point, however, its worth noting that D&D cosmology is (and has always been) vaguely capped at the Greater God strata of power. With a few possible 'unseen' exceptions...Lady of Pain, Tharizdun, 'The Serpent', AO.So I think for normal games, having maybe the likes of Tiamat, Demogorgon and Vecna as the campaign ending bosses is the right choice.If you do want to have a (Level 31+ 4E) campaign where the PCs are actual deities then the first thing you have to do is expand the current cosmology. Fortunately I already have that framework in place with my 3rd Edition Epic Bestiary. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />   As I mentioned above, playing 31+ is going to need to pull back the great veil on how mortals perceive reality. Once you do that you open up the possibilities of what comes next. As well as simply more powerful foes I also have rules for taking on really big monsters, from Godzilla sized beasts, to mountain sized creatures like the Mokkurkalve and Typhon, and even planet sized monstrousities, like Algol and the Alklha. Also I have quick rules for battling vast armies, potentially millions strong.Totally agree with this last point, epic monsters are fairly sparse in 4E (unless you really like Dragons and Hydras). But thats something I'll be seeking to change with some 4E Bestiaries. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />My guess is you need about 100 monsters (or 100 stat-blocks more accurately) covering any 10 level stretch to even give DMs a decent choice for campaigns.I was a bit disappointed in Monster Manual 2 that they didn't really include any new epic races (Djinn arguably in early 20s). I would have loved to have seen the Chaos Shards and Fell Taints as new epic foes.</blockquote>

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