[Highmoon Media] Tentative Plans for a 4th Edition World

[HalWhitewyrm]

I just posted this to our company blog, but I figured I'd quote it here as well:

Though at the moment it is still too early to really know what our plans at Highmoon Media Productions will be once the D&D 4th Edition SRD is released, we can tell you a couple of things that have more or less been decided upon already.

Barring any unforseen circumstances, HMP will continue to support d20 SRD-based products via the OGL (and maybe a possible new d20 System License). We like d20–in fact, we like it a lot–and look forward to tinkering around with this new iteration of the d20 rules. Whether we will convert all our current products to 4e is what remains to be seen, however.

The Liber Sodalitas line will most likely see a conversion to the new rules, as will Targum Magazine and the Terra Mythica line. Bardic Lore is on hiatus at the moment, and it is unknown when that will end, if at all (4e or not). The DaVinci Labs line is going on hiatus at the moment, awaiting either news of a new Modern SRD release, or the release of the Modern 2.0 rules being developed by Charles Rice of RPG Objects, whichever comes first and/or rocks the most. We do, however, have a couple of d20 Modern-based products, and a new system-independent product line from Bret Boyd, coming soon.

The MonkeyGod adventures will, with almost complete certainty, not be converted to the new rules system; they simply would take too much work and time. So unless we have an overwhelming response to this announcement, these will remain as 3.0/3.5 adventures (we are, however, open to fan-made conversions, if there is enough interest), though we have no intention of taking them off the market.

The biggest announcement we have to make at this moment is that we have discussed the possibility of (and received agreeable feedback on) publishing a 4e version of From Stone to Steel, MonkeyGod’s encyclopedia of weapons and armors throughout the ages. Beyond the interest in doing an update to that fantastic book, nothing has been decided as we set about finding the layout files, rearranging some things, and preparing for when the rules are released and we can begin the process of conversion. We’ll look at printing and distribution a bit further down the line. If you want to see this project happen, please be sure to let us know via a comment on the blog post, the forums or by email/contact form.

As new plans are solidifed, we’ll let you all know what’s going on with HMP as 4e approaches.

 

[lrsach01]

This is the problem for all of us NOT going to 4e....the loss of new gaming material. Because WotC will be changing the SRD and D20 licenses, there will be no more new gaming material for 3.5e. "Sure there will" you might say. But how do you sell it? You can't brand it SRD3.5...that won't exist. It will ONLY be the SRD and it will be 4e. Think you can just make up SRD3.5? Try it. I bet you get a nice letter from some of WotC's best lawyers. You can't label it D20 since that will be 4e. And the OGL will follow along. Those brands belong to WotC and they won't let people interfere with their ability to make money. Oh sure, you will be able to make up your own games. But some of us just don't have that kind of time any more. I'm WELL out of my college days and my boss tends to frown on using up office resources for generating game material. You say there will always be some free stuff fans make and put out on the net? Sure! But come next May, it will all be over for professional material.

Don't jump on me too much. I can't blame companies moving with WotC. Its where the money is. I'm not mad or anything at Daniel or Highmoon (forever together in my mind). I've been a fan since the earliest of Gamer Traveler episodes at The Dragonslanding Inn. I'm just sorry to see the game I love lose out. But who knows....maybe 4e will be just that great. I hope.

 

[philreed]

This is the problem for all of us NOT going to 4e....the loss of new gaming material.

I suspect there will be new 3.5 material the same month 4e is released.

 

[kenmarable]

Because WotC will be changing the SRD and D20 licenses, there will be no more new gaming material for 3.5e. "Sure there will" you might say. But how do you sell it? You can't brand it SRD3.5...that won't exist. It will ONLY be the SRD and it will be 4e. Think you can just make up SRD3.5? Try it. I bet you get a nice letter from some of WotC's best lawyers. You can't label it D20 since that will be 4e. And the OGL will follow along.

Just to clear up some misconceptions, the OGL won't "follow along" with 4e and therefore block off 3.5e. Once the 3.x SRDs were released, they were for all intents and purposes opened forever. Yeah, WotC can (and most likely will) pull the D20 logo and license, and probably stop hosting the 3.5 SRD on their site, but the game will be just as open and available a year from now as it is today. In fact, 10 years from now, 3.5 will be just as open for other publishers as it is today.

So no letters from lawyers for those trying to publish 3.5e or sites that host their own versions of the SRD. No letters from lawyers even to those who try publishing a new game based on the rules (like Arcana Evolved or Iron Hereos or True20, etc.). As long as publishers don't overstep the bounds they can't overstep now, then there's nothing stopping them from publishing 3.5e for years to come - other than the shrinking consumer base, of course.

I'm sure many companies will still publish 3.5 material for a while. And I'm sure many will strongly consider dual-statting or even fan conversions. Next Spring, 3.5 will only be as dead as gamers like you allow it to be. If enough continue to purchase 3.5 products that there's money to be made, then publishers will continue to produce them. They like money.

 

[HalWhitewyrm]

I'm sure many companies will still publish 3.5 material for a while. And I'm sure many will strongly consider dual-statting or even fan conversions. Next Spring, 3.5 will only be as dead as gamers like you allow it to be. If enough continue to purchase 3.5 products that there's money to be made, then publishers will continue to produce them. They like money.

I like the way you put it, Morrus.

3.5 is not dead to us, and if fans continue to support it, I don't have a problem continuing to publish it.

 

[jaerdaph]

The Liber Sodalitas line will most likely see a conversion to the new rules, as will Targum Magazine and the Terra Mythica line.

Does this mean Green Ronin (or someone else) has plans to update the products that Targum supports (Testament etc.)?

 

[HalWhitewyrm]

As much as I wish for that to happen, I can't speak for them. Fan support for the idea, however, always helps, so let them know.

I CAN tell you, however, that we have been given permission to publish the official 3.5 update to Testament, which should be in the next issue of Targum.

 

[lrsach01]

opps...double posted accidentally.

 

[lrsach01]

I'm sure many companies will still publish 3.5 material for a while. And I'm sure many will strongly consider dual-statting or even fan conversions. Next Spring, 3.5 will only be as dead as gamers like you allow it to be. If enough continue to purchase 3.5 products that there's money to be made, then publishers will continue to produce them. They like money.

First off, let me make sure my tone is clear here. I'm not trying to be argumentative or plain old grumpy and contrary. Not being a game materials producer, I'm not "in the know" on some of these topics. I've also got just enough knowledge about open source material to be a true danger to myself. So, if I ask a question that seems argumentative or antagonistic, please take it for the truly clueless question it is.
That being said:
1. How is anyone producing 3.5e material going to market it as such?
a. Right now, if someone makes a module, they can slap on the D20 logo (yeah...I'm glossing over the logistics but work with me) and the buyer can safely know that it will work with their 3.5 core books. In a few short months, that won't be possible. IF the D20 logo is still around (not something I'm certain of after WotC's "OGL/D20" panel at GenCon Digital Front Podcast), WotC won't let anyone NOT making 4e material use the logo. I don't know if WotC has come out and said this specifically, but I don't think I'm going out on a limb by suggesting it.
b. What about just publishing under the OGL? That would be fine, I suppose. But the OGL is written in such a nebulous fashion, that the game system is never defined. Furthermore, you could not even say your game content is compatible with a WotC product without their consent. This is in section 7 of the Open Gaming License:

Use of Product Identity: You agree not to Use any Product Identity, including as an indication as to compatibility, except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of each element of that Product Identity. You agree not to indicate compatibility or co-adaptability with any Trademark or Registered Trademark in conjunction with a work containing Open Game Content except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of such Trademark or Registered Trademark. The use of any Product Identity in Open Game Content does not constitute a challenge to the ownership of that Product Identity. The owner of any Product Identity used in Open Game Content shall retain all rights, title and interest in and to that Product Identity.

I'm not a lawyer, but that looks to me like "you can't claim compatibility without our say so."

2. The examples posted (Arcana Unleashed, Iron Heroes, True 20) all change the way 3.0 or 3.5 are played. They are not 3.5e materials such as modules (which I guess is what I really am dreading the loss of) but rather alter/expand/extend the game rules/races/classes.

Like I said, I have just enough knowledge to be a danger to myself. Please tell me where I'm wrong. Maybe its a case of "we haven't heard yet so we don't know."

 

[kenmarable]

Like I said, I have just enough knowledge to be a danger to myself. Please tell me where I'm wrong. Maybe its a case of "we haven't heard yet so we don't know."

I did have a big long-winded reply, but in the end I realized it was pretty rambling. Basically I had a couple points. First off, I probably misunderstood your first message as saying legally WotC can prevent companies from publishing 3.5 material, and my answer was "No, they can't."

However, I think I see your point being more of the practical issue of "How to say a product is 3.5 and not 4e". You are right, that is a very troubling issue, but there are potential ways around it from:

- Publishers creating a new logo if the current d20 logo is pulled (WotC hasn't said if they will yet, but my Magic 8-Ball is saying "All signs point to yes" when I ask it.) This is probably quite likely, seeing as about once a year there's a discussion among publishers about creating an alternative logo to d20 anyway.

- Using the "compatible with the revised edition of the world's most popular fantasy role-playing game". That's into a gray legal area, but if WotC thought it was infringing, and if they thought it was worth their time and possible bad PR to send nastigrams, and if someone stood up to them and threatened to fight it into court, then there are several years, dozens of publishers, and hundreds of products and ads that already use that sort of statement and WotC did not nastigram them. So a court decision for WotC isn't guaranteed (Hasbro is already losing ground with a to-some-extent similar case involving Monopoly add-ons).

- Unlikely, but possible, is for someone to publish the 3.5 SRD as a newly branded game that companies can claim compatibility with.

- Rely on consumers knowing about their company. If Highmoon (just to use an example from this thread) just announced they were going to be 3.5 forever, then you as a consumer know that anything they put out is 3.5 compatible regardless of any logos or statements on the product. Not very reliable, but word of mouth can work.


But, bottom line, 3.5 fans will have to vote with their wallets to encourage publishers to stick to 3.5 or dual-stat. WotC can't prevent publishers from doing that, just create some marketing hurdles. But if there is still money to be made, companies will find ways to overcome those hurdles.