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Message: <blockquote data-quote="VirgilCaine" data-source="post: 3328284" data-attributes="member: 17083">Yes our campaigns are very different. I was speaking of a D&D campaign world as presented by the Core Rules. What most people think of as an "average" campaign world. The fact that your world was not "average" should have been mentioned in your post. Why? Because your game is different and there are different standards to think under. Had I known of the low-magic nature of your campaign, in your PCs case, instead of breaking in, I would have suggested that they should have done their best to keep anyone from going in or out of the fortress, especially with food supplies, and propagated as much disease as possible inside the enemy fortress. That should have softened up the 150 hobgoblins considerably after two or three weeks, and the PCs might have a chance against them with 50 men. They'd probably take some sallies from the fortress, further reducing the enemies numbers. Unless, of course, the enemy simply ordered 2/3s (100) of the hobgoblins to immediately move outside the fortress and attack the PC force...unless the PCs concentrated on area spells, they probably would lose.Don't exaggerate. Don't do that. Lots of people who prefer low-magic games do that when they're talking about things, and it's very tiring.What I stated takes nothing more than three or four 3rd level or lower spells from the PHB (Which, except for Sculpt Sound, should be easily available at any town given a few days to request a scroll to be made [town used as a technical term, viz. the DMG community guidelines] or from PC spellcasters) and a single 50 gp alchemical item.Dwarven Defender was a suggestion, not integral to the plan. That is a far cry from what you said about having every available magic item, spell or PrC to choose from. That would seem ridiculous to me.Like I said, your game is not the average D&D game. I would expect a 5th level party, maybe a little higher, 7th or so, to use that plan. Maybe even 3rd level, if they had NPC allies to cast the spells/have the spells on scrolls or some cash to spare. Or a mercenary company with classed leaders of 5th level or higher. I didn't "search rule books" to do that. That was off the top of my head. That's not very high-magic at all and not really different from real life techniques--climbing stuff to get up a wall. You could have even had an invisible Rogue or three do that and it might work, if there were three or four of them and they carried the chain in Hewards Handy Haversacks. See, that's even simpler. If you want a medieval world, perhaps another system would be a better and easier fit than D&D.</blockquote>

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