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Historical Problems and 5E
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<blockquote data-quote="FormerlyHemlock" data-source="post: 7112284" data-attributes="member: 6787650"><p>Hmmm.</p><p></p><p>It's fixed some "problems" and created others. Here I will list only problems that 5E has fixed or alleviated. The things that weren't broke until 5E "fixed" them are <em>not</em> listed.</p><p></p><p>* Thieves being annoyingly bad at things they should be good at, like Open Locks and Move Silently: sort of fixed, mostly by making almost everybody good at them. (Anyone can learn Thieves Tools proficiency via background almost a well as a thief.)</p><p></p><p>* Thieves having no real niche because they're bad in combat and worse than wizards outside of combat: fixed, by making thieves^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hrogues better in combat.</p><p></p><p>* Magic items too central to gameplay. It's not fun to be the guy whose whole identity is basically wrapped around his magic sword, without which he is nigh-useless--or rather, it's fun only every once in a while. Fixed: in 5E they are almost entirely optional.</p><p></p><p>* Level limits are not fun to play with. Fixed by removing them entirely. I would have preferred a softer fix (e.g. diminishing returns to XP beyond the level limit) but the 5E version is adequate.</p><p></p><p>* Monsters don't have stats listed except Intelligence. Makes it hard to judge e.g. their carrying capacity or ability to walk a tightrope, so gameplay leverages saving throws for inappropriate things. Fixed by giving all monsters all six ability stats. Fix is vitiated by the fact that the stats aren't particularly well-chosen for anything but combat. Do I <em>really</em> believe that a Fire Giant is supposed to be only marginally better at opening stuck mayonaise jars (Strength check) than a high-level Fighter? Not really. This fix is okay, nice to have, but needs a lot of DM work still to finish the job.</p><p></p><p>* 5E does a good job of explaining why towns can exist in D&D-land. Due to bounded accuracy, humans with longbows are absolute murder on animals like wolves, displacer beasts, T-Rexes, even trolls; even a small town guard of a dozen or so (dedicated, professional) horse-archers could secure an area big enough for a moderate-sized town to cultivate.</p><p></p><p>* Stat rolling is much gentler in 5E. Because the slope of the stat curve is much gentler, and because stats increase as you level up anyway, even a relatively punishing stat generation technique like 3d6 in order is more fun than it would be in 2nd edition. I think. Or it could just be that I'm older and less munchkin than I was back then--but I think it does help that the stakes are lower. Rolling all 18s in 5E simply isn't as <em>good</em> as it would be in 2nd edition.</p><p></p><p>I think that's pretty much it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FormerlyHemlock, post: 7112284, member: 6787650"] Hmmm. It's fixed some "problems" and created others. Here I will list only problems that 5E has fixed or alleviated. The things that weren't broke until 5E "fixed" them are [I]not[/I] listed. * Thieves being annoyingly bad at things they should be good at, like Open Locks and Move Silently: sort of fixed, mostly by making almost everybody good at them. (Anyone can learn Thieves Tools proficiency via background almost a well as a thief.) * Thieves having no real niche because they're bad in combat and worse than wizards outside of combat: fixed, by making thieves^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hrogues better in combat. * Magic items too central to gameplay. It's not fun to be the guy whose whole identity is basically wrapped around his magic sword, without which he is nigh-useless--or rather, it's fun only every once in a while. Fixed: in 5E they are almost entirely optional. * Level limits are not fun to play with. Fixed by removing them entirely. I would have preferred a softer fix (e.g. diminishing returns to XP beyond the level limit) but the 5E version is adequate. * Monsters don't have stats listed except Intelligence. Makes it hard to judge e.g. their carrying capacity or ability to walk a tightrope, so gameplay leverages saving throws for inappropriate things. Fixed by giving all monsters all six ability stats. Fix is vitiated by the fact that the stats aren't particularly well-chosen for anything but combat. Do I [I]really[/I] believe that a Fire Giant is supposed to be only marginally better at opening stuck mayonaise jars (Strength check) than a high-level Fighter? Not really. This fix is okay, nice to have, but needs a lot of DM work still to finish the job. * 5E does a good job of explaining why towns can exist in D&D-land. Due to bounded accuracy, humans with longbows are absolute murder on animals like wolves, displacer beasts, T-Rexes, even trolls; even a small town guard of a dozen or so (dedicated, professional) horse-archers could secure an area big enough for a moderate-sized town to cultivate. * Stat rolling is much gentler in 5E. Because the slope of the stat curve is much gentler, and because stats increase as you level up anyway, even a relatively punishing stat generation technique like 3d6 in order is more fun than it would be in 2nd edition. I think. Or it could just be that I'm older and less munchkin than I was back then--but I think it does help that the stakes are lower. Rolling all 18s in 5E simply isn't as [I]good[/I] as it would be in 2nd edition. I think that's pretty much it. [/QUOTE]
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