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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Galloglaich" data-source="post: 4611080" data-attributes="member: 77019">So yes, Gandalf was a real person  Actually there were several Gandalfs, but one in particular who is relevant to our Elves.  <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfheimr#Later_kings_of_.C3.81lfheim" target="_blank">Ãlfheimr - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</a>     I wonder if it is a coincidence Tolkein named his hero after this guy from where the Elves historically lived? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />  I almost felt like I was walking in his footsteps while researching this article      From the wiki:    See also  <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandalf_Alfgeirsson" target="_blank">Gandalf Alfgeirsson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</a>    So How's that for a shocker?     So was Gandalf a big sweaty flea-infested Viking ?  This news could be a bit of a downer.  After all, we have come to think of Gandalf as the loveable character from Tolkein, and now from the famous films.   It seems a bit jarring to think of him as some … some … Viking!  <a href="http://www.aking.missingsaddle.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/viking_warrior-765290.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.aking.missingsaddle.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/viking_warrior-765290.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" /></a><a href="http://www.aking.missingsaddle.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/viking_warrior-765290.jpg" target="_blank"></a>     [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCxUBOsbl7c"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVUf2-ZG-l4[/ame]     Actually, the modern conception of a Viking comes primarily from a combination of Victorian fantasy, 19th Century German nationalism and WW II era Nazi propaganda.     The image is so distorted I think in some ways were Tolkeins Elves more like the real Vikings than our modern image.  For example, they seem to share the Elf aesthetic in certain respects.     The Norse / Elf Aesthetic     Consider the famous Urnes Stave Church, a Unesco World Heritage site.  <img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9d/Urnesportalen.jpg/341px-Urnesportalen.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" /><img src="http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/48/l_cf1e7200dee7417bbecccdac9ecce366.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" />  <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urnes_stave_church" target="_blank">Urnes stave church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</a>     Or this elegant helmet from the Vedndel period, during the time of Alf the Old  <a href="http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/4774/helm07.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/4774/helm07.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" /></a><a href="http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/4774/helm07.jpg" target="_blank"></a>(Modern Reproduction of Vendel helm     Or these other small Vendel Artefacts  <a href="http://www.hp.uab.edu/image_archive/ujg/metalwork03.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.hp.uab.edu/image_archive/ujg/metalwork03.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" /></a><a href="http://www.hp.uab.edu/image_archive/ujg/fibula11.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.hp.uab.edu/image_archive/ujg/fibula11.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" /></a><a href="http://www.hp.uab.edu/image_archive/ujg/fibula11.jpg" target="_blank"></a>   <img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Snake-witch.JPG/563px-Snake-witch.JPG" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" />Viking Rune StoneOr these little Viking-era artefacts<img src="http://www.sheshen-eceni.co.uk/images/viking%20cuerdale%20hoard%202alt2dn1.JPG" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" /><img src="http://www.tribal-celtic-tattoo.com/New_Folder/Book%20o3.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" /><img src="http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/55/l_f04120056c824dba8f93ce16db4e792b.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" />The broaches and the face on the left are historical antiques in original condition.  The Elf: So Fresh, So clean  <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking#Uncleanliness" target="_blank">Viking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</a>  One thing we know about Elves, they don’t walk around dirty and sloppy all the time like hippies.  So what about our historical Gandalf, was he sweaty and flea infested?  Actually, he probably didn’t have fleas.  Like the Celts and many other European "Barbarians", (and unlike the monks who wrote about them) Vikings were known to be actually quite hygienic.  Combs, ear-spoons, razors and similar articles of toiletry are common finds in Viking-era grave sites.  In fact the cleanliness of the pagan Vikings was a source of irritation to civilized Christians, according to at least one source:     “…the Danes, thanks to their habit of combing their hair every day, of bathing every Saturday and regularly changing their clothes, are able to undermine the virtue of married women and even seduce the daughters of nobles to be their mistresses.“  -English cleric <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_of_Wallingford" target="_blank">John of Wallingford</a>, prior of St. Fridswides, 1002 AD    The Norse of this era generally washed their faces and hands every day and bathed as often as possible, normally every few days, at least once a week.  Nearly every Norse village or farmstead no matter how small had its bath-house and / or sauna.  They combed and washed their hair and beards regularly and washed both their bodies and their garments with lye soap, a habit they apparently inherited from the Celts who seem to have invented it.  All this attention to personal hygiene led them to suffer somewhat less from two of the common nuisances of the day: lice and fleas, and all extra disease risk that went with them.  (A good reason to stay fresh and clean)     Norse / Elf culture ?  Similarly, while today our biker-like Vikings are often (rather strangely) exclusively associated with an authoritarian image of Odin as All-Father, in reality the Elves in particular were closely associated with Frey, one of the Vanir…     <a href="http://mythologica.fr/nordique/pic/freyr.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://mythologica.fr/nordique/pic/freyr.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" /></a><a href="http://mythologica.fr/nordique/pic/freyr.jpg" target="_blank"></a>Common modern depiction of Frey, with the Boar-cult he and his sister were often associated with     <a href="http://www.beyond-the-pale.org.uk/xFreyr.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.beyond-the-pale.org.uk/xFreyr.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" /></a><a href="http://www.beyond-the-pale.org.uk/xFreyr.jpg" target="_blank"></a>Famous artifact depicting Frey in his characteristic perpetual state of manhood.     …which was apparently an earlier cult than the more famous Aesir.  In the Poetic Edda of Snorri Sturlson the Aesir and the Vanir fight a war, which ends in a truce involving the exchange of hostages (some of whom were killed by the Vanir when they believe they were betrayed)  This apparently reflected an uneasy truce between the two tribal sects and corresponding political factions, which has been largely forgotten in our modern simplification of the cartoon Viking.  For example a lot of people today forgot that the Vanir Goddess Freyja, who was extremely popular and remained so long after official conversion to Christianity, was able to claim fully half of the warriors who died in battle- Half of Norse warriors who died in battle went to Odin’s hall Valhalla which we know so well, but few people today know that the other half went to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sessr%C3%BAmnir" target="_blank">Sessrúmnir</a>, Freyja’s party palace (known to be a favorite hang out of Elves, according to the Sagas).<img src="http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p83/asarotte/Odin.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" />Odin: the creepy, devious, overbearing and perpetually angry All-Father.  Into betrayal, hangings and gibbets, friends with two corpse-eating crows.<img src="http://www.crystalinks.com/freya.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" />Freyja, literally a sex goddess, into lust, magic, dancing, poetry, and drinking mead, hangs around with valkyries and elves.  I know where I'd rather go to spend eternity.     By contrast, we know from the Sagas that Odin in particular was actually not a popular God during the pagan Viking times except with would-be Kings and Berzerkers.  There are few if any shrines to him and very few artifacts associated with his worship remain (unlike the hundreds of Thors hammer pendants which were found in profusion all over Scandinavia) He seems to have risen to higher prominence as an underground anti-hero ironically after conversion to Christianity.     Vikings were also far more chaotic and elf-like in their politics as well.   Political power in Viking Scandinavia was in what was called a <a href="http://%5BURL=%22http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thing_%28assembly%29%22" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thing_(assembly)</a> Thing, a combination county  faire, legislature, high court, tribal assembly and general election. Gradually toward the end of the Viking age the Thing was overshadowed by new Monarchies, though in Iceland, where they tried to preserve the old-school traditions a bit longer, this became the foundation of one of Europes oldest ever Republics, the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al%C3%BEingi" target="_blank">All-Thing</a>, founded in 930 AD.       And unlike in Rome or Greece, women were allowed to attend !               So our Gandalf may not have been quite the sweaty authoritarian biker we envision.     Norse Elves: Not as chaste as Tolkeins  Tolkein was an extremely devout Catholic and his chaste and calm elves were somewhat Angelic in character.  Not so the Scandinavian Alfar, who while they did have a bit more dignity than the average human Viking, were decidedly pagan and generally a much more raw and lusty type of Elf than Tolkeins Noldorin.  The Sagas are full of stories of the Alfar carousing, sleeping around, drinking to excess and getting in fights.  Crossing an Elf, as with any fairies whether they be in Ireland, Germany, Russia or Finland, was a dangerous habit because these people would hold a grudge and were very resourceful.  Please one on the other hand, whether with a nice roll in the hay, a clever poem, a some beer and a nice meal or a valuable gift, and they will often return the favor in a very “old school” way.     The latter tradition lives on to this day in Scandinavia as the Álfablót (Elf-Sacrifice): <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%81lfabl%C3%B3t" target="_blank">ÃlfablÃ³t - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</a>     Skålgropar, a particular kind of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroglyph" target="_blank">petroglyph</a> found in Scandinavia, were known in older times as älvkvarnar (elven mills), pointing to their believed usage to provide little treats for the Elves, who would presumably return the favor.  This tradition was documented to have continued in Scandinavia until at least the 19th Century.  (A recent survey in Iceland revealed 80% of the population believed in Elves)     The locals don’t like to talk about it much, but here are some photos of älvkvarnaI was able to find after a long search (and some help from some Swedish HEMA fighters I know):  <a href="http://www.campingguiden.se/stsidlanen/vastragotaland/fdskaraborg/images/hallristessunga.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.campingguiden.se/stsidlanen/vastragotaland/fdskaraborg/images/hallristessunga.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" /></a><a href="http://www.campingguiden.se/stsidlanen/vastragotaland/fdskaraborg/images/hallristessunga.jpg" target="_blank"></a>  <a href="http://gutar.tingstade.com/bilder/arkeologi/alvkvarnar1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://gutar.tingstade.com/bilder/arkeologi/alvkvarnar1.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" /></a><a href="http://gutar.tingstade.com/bilder/arkeologi/alvkvarnar1.jpg" target="_blank"></a>  <a href="http://www.k-blogg.se/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/skalgropar_377.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.k-blogg.se/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/skalgropar_377.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" /></a><a href="http://www.k-blogg.se/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/skalgropar_377.jpg" target="_blank"></a>     To this day in Scandinavia, according to local folklore Dryad like creatures such as the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huldra" target="_blank">Huldra</a>, remain to haunt the woods,  (a Huldra being a sexually voracious she-troll said to be both beautiful and elegantly dressed, other than having a foxes tail, to which it is wisest not to bring uncouth attention lest you annoy them.  If you are polite and friendly on the other hand, you may find them friendly too…)     <a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a9/Skogsr%C3%A5_copy.jpg/180px-Skogsr%C3%A5_copy.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a9/Skogsr%C3%A5_copy.jpg/180px-Skogsr%C3%A5_copy.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" /></a><a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a9/Skogsr%C3%A5_copy.jpg/180px-Skogsr%C3%A5_copy.jpg" target="_blank"></a>Modern conception of a Huldra, from the wiki     The real Gandalf: probably not a wizard.  Speaking of Magic, our historical Gandalf was very likely not a Wizard.  That isn’t to say he definitely wasn’t.       The reason why it’s unlikely is that Magic in Viking Age Scandinavia on-back was almost exclusively the purview of women. Norse magic is called Seidth or Seidr or Seid, and could as a general rule only be practiced by women.  It may have involved female sexual practices.  This did not apparently stop Odin from learning it, something Loki mocked him for during a famous confrontation recorded in the Poetic Edda.<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seid" target="_blank">Seid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</a>  There are numerous female Wizards depicted in the Icelandic sagas, far too many to mention here, but it's worth noting that Scandinavian sorceresses were not just a thing of mythology.  Arguably the single most famous Viking archeological site, and without a doubt the finest Viking ship ever unearthed, was the famous Oseburg ship burial.   <a href="http://www2.khm.uio.no/bilder_vsh/oseberg_1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www2.khm.uio.no/bilder_vsh/oseberg_1.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" /></a><a href="http://www2.khm.uio.no/bilder_vsh/oseberg_1.jpg" target="_blank"></a>     <a href="http://teachers.sduhsd.k12.ca.us/ltrupe/ART%20History%20Web/final/chap14Medieval/Oseburg%20Burial%20Ship-Animal%20Head.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://teachers.sduhsd.k12.ca.us/ltrupe/ART%20History%20Web/final/chap14Medieval/Oseburg%20Burial%20Ship-Animal%20Head.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" /></a><a href="http://teachers.sduhsd.k12.ca.us/ltrupe/ART%20History%20Web/final/chap14Medieval/Oseburg%20Burial%20Ship-Animal%20Head.jpg" target="_blank"></a>Detail of dragon head prow from Oseburg ship     <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oseberg_ship" target="_blank">Oseberg ship - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</a>     This was a burial of two woman, apparently a high-status sorceress and her servant or companion.  The Lady was buried with a wand, and marijuana seeds.  Norse sorceresses were known by the somewhat evocative name of a Völva.    <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%B6lva" target="_blank">VÃ¶lva - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</a>     <a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/Finds_from_a_priestess%27_grave.jpg/800px-Finds_from_a_priestess%27_grave.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/Finds_from_a_priestess%27_grave.jpg/800px-Finds_from_a_priestess%27_grave.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" /></a><a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/Finds_from_a_priestess%27_grave.jpg/800px-Finds_from_a_priestess%27_grave.jpg" target="_blank"></a>  <a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3a/Freyja_in_silver.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3a/Freyja_in_silver.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" /></a><a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3a/Freyja_in_silver.jpg" target="_blank"></a>  Another famous burial of a Volva included an iron wand and an expensive pendant depicting Freyja and her famous necklace, the Brísingamen (which was made by dwarves Freyja had to sleep with to get them to build it)     It is just possible Gandalf was a Wizard though.  There were a few rather manly semi-historical characters who practiced magic, including the infamous Egil Skallagrimson, one of Icelands national heroes and a man who makes several lists of the deadliest people in history.   Egils saga records Egil casting several spells, including a curse aimed directly at his principle rival Erik Bloodaxe, King of Norway, and his wife Gunnhild, who was herself a famous witch.     The Norse / Elf Weapon: alternative to Elf-Ninjas?  Finally, our modern fantasy interpretation of Tolkeins Elves, including the films which I liked a great deal, seem to have invented a curious kind of samurai type weaponry for the Elves, I suspect probably since the perception of European (let alone Viking) weapons being too crude and clumsy for such graceful people.       Needless to say, as the author of the Codex Martialis, an avid historical martial artist and owner of a few high quality historically accurate sword replicas myself, this is a pet peeve of mine.  Because of course the reality was far different.  The Vikings and their Vendel era predecessors had some absolutely first rate swords, at least as sophisticated and effective, not to mention beautiful, as anything in the world at that time (including in Asia)     Vendel sword  <a href="http://www.hp.uab.edu/image_archive/ujg/metalwork10.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.hp.uab.edu/image_archive/ujg/metalwork10.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" /></a><a href="http://www.hp.uab.edu/image_archive/ujg/metalwork10.jpg" target="_blank"></a>(original)     Since the original is 1300 years old, some Modern reproductions can help us grasp what it looked like “back in the day”  <a href="http://bjorn.foxtail.nu/images/barta_02-.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://bjorn.foxtail.nu/images/barta_02-.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" /></a>fancy enough for an Elf?<a href="http://bjorn.foxtail.nu/images/barta_02-.jpg" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://bjorn.foxtail.nu/images/barta_02-.jpg" target="_blank"></a>A couple more Viking swords (replicas) from Patrick Barta of Templ, who does some of the most historically precise reproductions from this period available anywhere in the world (well worth it if you have a lot of money and the patience for a fairly long waiting list)  <a href="http://www.templ.net/pics-weapons/133-sword/133-hilt-v.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.templ.net/pics-weapons/133-sword/133-hilt-v.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" /></a><a href="http://www.templ.net/pics-weapons/133-sword/133-hilt-v.jpg" target="_blank"></a>  <a href="http://www.templ.net/pics-weapons/118-sword/a18bv.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.templ.net/pics-weapons/118-sword/a18bv.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" /></a><a href="http://www.templ.net/pics-weapons/118-sword/a18bv.jpg" target="_blank"></a>A truly elfin blade, in my opinion.     12th Century Sword, axe and Spear found in Finland  (An original: Keep in mind it’s 800 years old which causes a bit of rust)  <a href="http://a220.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/113/l_635e033f1032bcee635613424bd59ee3.jpg" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://a220.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/113/l_635e033f1032bcee635613424bd59ee3.jpg" target="_blank"></a>  <a href="http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/46/l_8901bf724fa34a2f8bae5a9085ef89b7.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/46/l_8901bf724fa34a2f8bae5a9085ef89b7.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" /></a><a href="http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/46/l_8901bf724fa34a2f8bae5a9085ef89b7.jpg" target="_blank"></a>     10th Century sword from a womans Grave, also from Finland  <a href="http://a717.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/67/l_4ae5e2f3b2716077e28963333169f30c.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://a717.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/67/l_4ae5e2f3b2716077e28963333169f30c.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" /></a><a href="http://a717.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/67/l_4ae5e2f3b2716077e28963333169f30c.jpg" target="_blank"></a>  ..here is a modern replica of it by Rob Miller of Castle Keep:<a href="http://www.castlekeep.co.uk/" target="_blank">Castle Keep, Isle of Skye - Fine Handcrafted Blades</a><img src="http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/1/l_ea53a1f058cd4678a42a38145012e917.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" />“The central part of their blades, cunningly hollowed out, appears to be grained with tiny snakes, and here such varied shadows play that you would believe the shining metal to be interwoven with many colours.”   -5th century Roman Diplomat and author Cassiodorus, describing pattern welded sword made by the Teutonic Warni tribe.   As you may have noticed from the photos, many weapons from this era were made with a very sophisticated pattern welding technique (often mistaken for "Damascus Steel") which was a way to combine high and low carbon steel to make swords of superlative quality.  The Norse called this the “Serpent in the Steel” or the "Dragon in the Steel", and normally you couldn’t see the pattern unless the sword was etched with a mild acid (which was sometimes done with tanic acid, vinegar or urine) but could always be detected when you thrust it into the snow and then blew across the blade to warm it with your breath... the “serpent” pattern would appear for a moment then fade away.     Now if this isn’t sufficiently Magical for Elves in your campaign then you probably prefer WoW to DnD <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />     <a href="http://www.templ.net/pics-weapons/110-viking_sword/110-damask_blade.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.templ.net/pics-weapons/110-viking_sword/110-damask_blade.jpg</a>    Detail (URL only)       <a href="http://www.templ.net/english/making-blades.php#damask8" target="_blank">TEMPL: Making of weapons - blades</a>  <a href="http://www.octavia.net/anglosaxon/Patternweldedswords.htm" target="_blank">Pattern Welded Swords</a></blockquote>

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