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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Galloglaich" data-source="post: 4631042" data-attributes="member: 77019">You both have a point, and it is indeed tempting to make a new class for the knight isn't it?  In fact I agree the Aristocrat is the logical starting point (with a few changes I'll get into shortly).  But my initial goal was to try to make a knight out of an ordinary DnD fighter so we could see what that looked like.I don't think 4th level is too high to achieve basic knighthood, though you could probably get away with a second or third level fighter, slightly higher for an Aristocrat.  I think you would need to have spirited charge, ride by attack and mounted combat feats at a minimum though, as well as a few ranks of ride skill and enough money to afford armor and a warhorse (which isn't too much in the DnD economy), as well as martial weapon, armor and shield proficiency.The third or fourth level fighter does jibe historically because a knight (reitter, cavallier, caballero et al., usually listed as 'Lances' in medieval records) was typically considered the equivalent of 10 - 30 common infantry soldiers.  This is repeated in records of hundreds of battles and wars, for example when listing the contributions of a given town or lord to an army, 100-200 'lances' may be listed alongside 3,000 4,000 infantry.  The typical ratio was around that ballpark, though of course it varied a lot and there were various types of specialist infantry who were also elite soldiers (genoese crossbowmen, swiss halberdiers etc.) you can get an idea what I mean by looking at some of the Osprey books on knights from different periods or on various medieval battles, or by looking at more serious academic analysis of medieval warfare like Hans Delbruck.  I'll recommend a couple of references at the end of the post.But before we start looking at how to remake a knightly class or whether to make it a standard player class or a prestige class, I'd like to try to answer your question on weapons and also open up the issue of warhorses a bit, because these are two ways a knight can be customized in interesting ways.In real life a knights mount was of critical importance.  It was more valuable in some cases than his armor.  A strong horse might improve your damage from a lance strike for instance, an agile one improve the odds of that ride skill check to avoid hits, a fast one obviously allows you to catch fleeing enemies or most important of all, ride away from the battlefield yourself should the day not go your way, which always was one of the principle advantages of being in the cavalry as opposed to the infantry.  Here are a few of the most famous types of knightly mounts:Destrier The Destrier was the muscle car drag racer of  the medieval battlefield.  Built for strength, courage and agility, this beast delivered the strait ahead power and acceleration that made it perfect for jousting.  Destiers were so expensive though and so specialized that they tended to be owned by wealthy Lords who could usually also afford other mounts for other purposes.<img src="http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/59/l_f3701d5391ac4032bc93489e288894dd.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" /><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destrier" target="_blank">Destrier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</a>Palfrey <img src="http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/38/l_3a440c85b5e24616b74cb26895f3d2e9.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" />from the wiki:<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palfrey" target="_blank">Palfrey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</a>Courser<img src="http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/29/l_20c0ee2cf4dc4138a8e9d59109928498.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" />From the wiki:Note all these references to hunting, a common passtime for members of the knightly class.  Any knight class in DnD should have access to most of the skills that a hunter would have.  Worth thinking about.There were also more exotic regional breeds, just to cite a couple:Irish Hobbie<img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/26/Connemara_pony.jpg/385px-Connemara_pony.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" />From the wiki<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Hobby" target="_blank">Irish Hobby - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</a>Irish Hobbies were ridden by special type of Irish Knight called <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobelar" target="_blank">Hobilars </a> who were also famously used in Scotland by Robert the Bruce.The hobby is also of course the inspiration for the famous toy hobby horse.  It is sadly extinct now, I won't get into why.Jennet<img src="http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/17/l_96cd66b3060b432f94fc7e74fab7ecc9.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" /><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennet" target="_blank">Jennet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</a>The barb was one of the sources of at least one military breed in Spain, the Jennet.  Jennets were small horses, first bred in Spain from Barb and Arabian bloodstock. Their quiet and dependable nature, as well as size, made them popular as riding horses for ladies; however, they were also used as cavalry horses by the Spanish.So ok enough for now.  I think it's interesting to think a bit about how a different type of horse could potentially contribute to a different fighting style, and different regional variations of knights from different parts of Europe.  I'll leave you guys with that for now since I have to go for a while but I'll revisit this soon and follow up about the weapons, the knights social status and ultimately take a stab at how to make a new knight class.G.</blockquote>

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