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<blockquote data-quote="Jack7" data-source="post: 5007726" data-attributes="member: 54707"><p>By all means. That's how things develop and improve.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No, you're right. In saying Germany I meant specifically the Holy Roman Empire, but then again I was just kinda generalizing in making those suggestions. For purposes of brevity.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I've recently been listening to another series of lectures on the Medieval Era, and it occurred to me that the Medieval period, leading up to and including the Renaissance (the real beginning of the Modern Era) was full of geniuses and innovation, but the real trouble was lack of communications, and methods of mass production (and if you think about it, effective communications are really necessary for the best methods of mass production to occur and operate).</p><p></p><p>In ancient Rome you had the road system, and other means of communication (including their version of the Pony Express mail system) that were very effective and fast, and because of the Pax Romana and the advantages of a more or less untied empire, innovation could be quickly spread (relatively speaking) throughout the empire. In the Medieval era, with nationalism spreading (not in the modern sense, but in the kingdom/small empire/territorial sense), poor communications, bad roads, and a sort of sectarian mindset, no matter how brilliant someone was, their achievements and knowledge remained a basically proprietary and secluded affair. Meaning unlike in the empire, unlike in the later Renaissance, and unlike (especially our modern world, with electronic and high tech - at least to us, I'm sure our decedents will look upon our technology as primitive enough - based communications) the present day, genius, and the implication of the works of that genius were slow to spread. </p><p></p><p>Couple that with no real means of mass production, compared to us, or even the Romans, and innovation was relatively hamstrung, no matter how good the nature of the ideas that were be produced. In other words good ideas were being produced, but the methods of their communication and application were hampered or crippled by other factors.</p><p></p><p>(As a little sidenote, my dad once asked me why there were no Einsteins running around now, like back in the early part of the century. He said this to me maybe in the late Sixties or early Seventies. I said because geniuses were so rare. And he said he didn't think so. He said it was because in the modern world, the way it operates and with the size of the population, that there are now so many that almost none really stand out anymore. He said a commodity is only as valuable as how rare it is. I never forgot that as he predicted the fall of the Soviet Union about 15 to 20 years before it actually happened.)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I've often wondered, given the situation with Benedict (not the current Pope, but the Saint and founder of monastic orders in the West), and some of the later founders of monastic orders, if the Byzantine efforts at monasticism (and their corresponding early idea of the Warrior-Monk) did not in fact have a far lager influence on Western monasticism than previously thought. I mean I know Benedict specifically rebelled against the idea of too strenuous and harsh ascetic practices, but that doesn't mean he would have abandoned all Eastern ideals of monastic life or obviously he wouldn't have founded Western monasteries based on Eastern models. I think he and some of the other order founders though may have been far more influenced by the Byzantine monasteries and hermitages, including the idea of monasteries being able to defend themselves and defend the Empire (in the West this would have meant the area in which they operated, under whatever flag or banner) if necessary, than is commonly considered.</p><p></p><p>I wrote one of my dissertations in college on early missionary movements in Christianity and Buddhism. It turns out that many of the very earliest efforts at missionary movements in Christianity were to the East (before, and including Paul) and Africa and were very successful for a time. Only later on did efforts turn to Rome. With Buddhism on the other hand, before going towards China the Buddhists headed West. (As a matter of fact the most successful Chinese efforts were of Chinese going West, and studying Buddhism in and around India, then bringing it home themselves.)</p><p></p><p>So I've often wondered, in examining some of the monastic practices of the Byzantine Christians, and especially of their seminal works and practices (I'm re-reading the <em>Philokalia</em> right now) just how much Buddhism influenced Byzantine monasteries. Especially in regards to the idea of the ascetic practices, and in other ideas, such as Warrior-Monks (though that particular idea was, pragmatically speaking, relatively short lived as a real practice in the West and may have very well evolved prior to the commonly accepted Warrior Monk idea in the East - depends on how you define the idea exactly, and where you are talking about).</p><p></p><p>Of course there are large-scale and practical differences between Eastern Christian monasticism and Oriental Buddhist monasticism but there are also interesting similarities and overlaps.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm familiar with them, as I occasionally do encoding/decoding, encrypting/de-crypting work for the military and/or law enforcement. As a matter of fact I've been working on an "Environmental Encoding" (encoding objects found in any given natural environment that can then be decoded or deciphered - though I'm using those terms only generally speaking, not technically speaking - through reverse means) project of my own for a few years now. (I got the idea while working on a project to decode graffiti left on the walls in Baghdad that was in effect leaving information in plain sight for terrorist and sectarian operators, so I decided that rather than just breaking their codes I'd also improve upon their techniques, turn it back upon them, and develop a new method of encoding the background environment. Not just their graffiti tagging or an enemy insurgent's own "cant," as might be said, but anything in the background I decided that would be effective to encode, encipher, or encrypt. Of course that would have not just military applications, but also technological, communicative, and espionage applications.) </p><p></p><p>That's why it struck me that any work that rendered specialized and effective combat techniques would have military value. Therefore would likely be encoded. As a matter of fact if I were a commander or ruler I would have insisted on it, had I known of such manuscripts and I would have gathered such material to create a covert or proprietary research library for my commanders. (Sort of like a multi-work <em>Tacticon</em> for my area of command.) This would be a big tactical and even strategic advantage when there was no gun-powder weapons, or when they were of limited effect or small in number. So I'm pretty sure that rulers somewhere, long dead now, had secret libraries field with such works for the training of their forces. (Though maybe only the best commanders and trainers would be privy to the books, the other soldiers would be trained by their superiors, who learned such techniques both through personal experience and training, and through reference to successful manuals.) </p><p></p><p>I've also been recently re-studying the <em>Voynich manuscript</em>, which I suspect does indeed contain multiple encoding, though not necessarily in the obvious way (see Environmental Encoding idea above) but that's off the subject.</p><p></p><p>Well, I was gonna say something else but my daughter walked in the office and interrupted me and I forgot it. Doesn't matter I've yakked way too long, and I need to get back to work. Pronto. But thanks for the references and ideas. Forgive the typos as I wrote fast and used Microsoft as my editor. And we all know what that leads to.</p><p></p><p>Anywho, very interesting and useful material and discussion.</p><p>It gave me some ideas for a new set of adventures set in my fantasy game world.</p><p></p><p>I'll work those up later.</p><p></p><p>See ya.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jack7, post: 5007726, member: 54707"] By all means. That's how things develop and improve. No, you're right. In saying Germany I meant specifically the Holy Roman Empire, but then again I was just kinda generalizing in making those suggestions. For purposes of brevity. I've recently been listening to another series of lectures on the Medieval Era, and it occurred to me that the Medieval period, leading up to and including the Renaissance (the real beginning of the Modern Era) was full of geniuses and innovation, but the real trouble was lack of communications, and methods of mass production (and if you think about it, effective communications are really necessary for the best methods of mass production to occur and operate). In ancient Rome you had the road system, and other means of communication (including their version of the Pony Express mail system) that were very effective and fast, and because of the Pax Romana and the advantages of a more or less untied empire, innovation could be quickly spread (relatively speaking) throughout the empire. In the Medieval era, with nationalism spreading (not in the modern sense, but in the kingdom/small empire/territorial sense), poor communications, bad roads, and a sort of sectarian mindset, no matter how brilliant someone was, their achievements and knowledge remained a basically proprietary and secluded affair. Meaning unlike in the empire, unlike in the later Renaissance, and unlike (especially our modern world, with electronic and high tech - at least to us, I'm sure our decedents will look upon our technology as primitive enough - based communications) the present day, genius, and the implication of the works of that genius were slow to spread. Couple that with no real means of mass production, compared to us, or even the Romans, and innovation was relatively hamstrung, no matter how good the nature of the ideas that were be produced. In other words good ideas were being produced, but the methods of their communication and application were hampered or crippled by other factors. (As a little sidenote, my dad once asked me why there were no Einsteins running around now, like back in the early part of the century. He said this to me maybe in the late Sixties or early Seventies. I said because geniuses were so rare. And he said he didn't think so. He said it was because in the modern world, the way it operates and with the size of the population, that there are now so many that almost none really stand out anymore. He said a commodity is only as valuable as how rare it is. I never forgot that as he predicted the fall of the Soviet Union about 15 to 20 years before it actually happened.) I've often wondered, given the situation with Benedict (not the current Pope, but the Saint and founder of monastic orders in the West), and some of the later founders of monastic orders, if the Byzantine efforts at monasticism (and their corresponding early idea of the Warrior-Monk) did not in fact have a far lager influence on Western monasticism than previously thought. I mean I know Benedict specifically rebelled against the idea of too strenuous and harsh ascetic practices, but that doesn't mean he would have abandoned all Eastern ideals of monastic life or obviously he wouldn't have founded Western monasteries based on Eastern models. I think he and some of the other order founders though may have been far more influenced by the Byzantine monasteries and hermitages, including the idea of monasteries being able to defend themselves and defend the Empire (in the West this would have meant the area in which they operated, under whatever flag or banner) if necessary, than is commonly considered. I wrote one of my dissertations in college on early missionary movements in Christianity and Buddhism. It turns out that many of the very earliest efforts at missionary movements in Christianity were to the East (before, and including Paul) and Africa and were very successful for a time. Only later on did efforts turn to Rome. With Buddhism on the other hand, before going towards China the Buddhists headed West. (As a matter of fact the most successful Chinese efforts were of Chinese going West, and studying Buddhism in and around India, then bringing it home themselves.) So I've often wondered, in examining some of the monastic practices of the Byzantine Christians, and especially of their seminal works and practices (I'm re-reading the [I]Philokalia[/I] right now) just how much Buddhism influenced Byzantine monasteries. Especially in regards to the idea of the ascetic practices, and in other ideas, such as Warrior-Monks (though that particular idea was, pragmatically speaking, relatively short lived as a real practice in the West and may have very well evolved prior to the commonly accepted Warrior Monk idea in the East - depends on how you define the idea exactly, and where you are talking about). Of course there are large-scale and practical differences between Eastern Christian monasticism and Oriental Buddhist monasticism but there are also interesting similarities and overlaps. I'm familiar with them, as I occasionally do encoding/decoding, encrypting/de-crypting work for the military and/or law enforcement. As a matter of fact I've been working on an "Environmental Encoding" (encoding objects found in any given natural environment that can then be decoded or deciphered - though I'm using those terms only generally speaking, not technically speaking - through reverse means) project of my own for a few years now. (I got the idea while working on a project to decode graffiti left on the walls in Baghdad that was in effect leaving information in plain sight for terrorist and sectarian operators, so I decided that rather than just breaking their codes I'd also improve upon their techniques, turn it back upon them, and develop a new method of encoding the background environment. Not just their graffiti tagging or an enemy insurgent's own "cant," as might be said, but anything in the background I decided that would be effective to encode, encipher, or encrypt. Of course that would have not just military applications, but also technological, communicative, and espionage applications.) That's why it struck me that any work that rendered specialized and effective combat techniques would have military value. Therefore would likely be encoded. As a matter of fact if I were a commander or ruler I would have insisted on it, had I known of such manuscripts and I would have gathered such material to create a covert or proprietary research library for my commanders. (Sort of like a multi-work [I]Tacticon[/I] for my area of command.) This would be a big tactical and even strategic advantage when there was no gun-powder weapons, or when they were of limited effect or small in number. So I'm pretty sure that rulers somewhere, long dead now, had secret libraries field with such works for the training of their forces. (Though maybe only the best commanders and trainers would be privy to the books, the other soldiers would be trained by their superiors, who learned such techniques both through personal experience and training, and through reference to successful manuals.) I've also been recently re-studying the [I]Voynich manuscript[/I], which I suspect does indeed contain multiple encoding, though not necessarily in the obvious way (see Environmental Encoding idea above) but that's off the subject. Well, I was gonna say something else but my daughter walked in the office and interrupted me and I forgot it. Doesn't matter I've yakked way too long, and I need to get back to work. Pronto. But thanks for the references and ideas. Forgive the typos as I wrote fast and used Microsoft as my editor. And we all know what that leads to. Anywho, very interesting and useful material and discussion. It gave me some ideas for a new set of adventures set in my fantasy game world. I'll work those up later. See ya. [/QUOTE]
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