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<blockquote data-quote="Galloglaich" data-source="post: 5427171" data-attributes="member: 77019"><p>On another forum, somebody asked about the plausibility of a medieval or pre-industrial society resisting a more sophisticated or high tech invader in a guerrilla war. Most people thought it would be unlikely in a Feudal society.</p><p></p><p>But of course, Ye Olde Days weren't like a Monty Python skit or a Ren Faire. There are several very good Medieval examples of extended guerilla warfare against odds which are hard to imagine could be worse.</p><p></p><p>The Russians were partially conquered by the Mongols in the 13th Century but continued active and passive resistance, in spite of routine massacres on a huge scale. In one exchange in 1380 the Russians <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kulikovo" target="_blank">wiped out an army of 150,000 Mongols and Turks from the Golden Horde</a>, two years later in 1382 another Mongol Army under a different general besieged Moscow and killed 24,000 people after it surrendered. But the Muscovites remained 'difficult'. This went on and on for another 100 years until the Mongols finally <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_standing_on_the_Ugra_river" target="_blank">backed down</a> rather than face another nasty fight with the Russians during the reign of Ivan III (father of Ivan IV 'the Terrible', the first independent Russian Czar).</p><p></p><p>In Hungary there was similar resistance to first the Mongols, then the Ottomans. Specifically <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skanderbeg" target="_blank">Skanderbeg</a> and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hunyadi" target="_blank">John Hunyandi</a> are worth looking at during the latter period. And of course Vlad Tepis in Romania.</p><p></p><p>In Lithuania they had to deal with the Mongols on one side and the German Teutonic Knights and Livonian Knights on the other side. One particularly good example is Samogitia. This tiny spit of land, a Primeval forest called <strong>The Grauden</strong>, was invaded over 300 times in the course of 200 years. The invaders were repeatedly caught in ambushes and wiped out, including the infamous Crusading Order of the Sword Brothers which was <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Saule" target="_blank">broken in 1239</a> and the Livonian Order which was <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Skuodas" target="_blank">crippled in 1259</a>. The Baltic people who lived there were called the <a href="http://samogitia.mch.mii.lt/ISTORIJA/samogit.en.htm" target="_blank">Samogitians</a>, sort of Baltic Vikings. They never surrendered, in spite of being sold-out by their own allies in Lithuania 3 times. They were the last European people to convert to Christianity, in <em>1413 AD</em>!!, and retained <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Skuodas" target="_blank">their own form of government</a> called a 'Tribal Eldership' through the 15th Century. They were basically left alone to mind their own business until the 19th Century.</p><p></p><p>Lithuania in general is a good example of Guerilla resistance because they were facing higher technology with much lower-tech, the Germans had plate armor, armored warhorses, giant warships, cannon, crossbows, and guns; the Tartars had horse archers and all kinds of special weapons, as well as a truly modern command and control capability. But the Lithuanians defeated them both using mostly light cavalry armed with javelins and spears, and all kinds of tricks like ambushes and hornets nests and running people into bogs and deadfalls, i.e. clever use of terrain.</p><p></p><p>I have also held forth probably enough on here already about the Bohemians, who also fended off both the Germans and the Mongols successfully and fought any number of guerrilla and open war campaigns to defend their land.</p><p></p><p>Another good example in Europe that most people never heard of is the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dithmarshen#History" target="_blank">Dithmarshen</a>, a swampy region in Saxony (northern Germany). They resisted something like 7 or 8 full scale invasions from Denmark and Germany between the 11th and 16th Centuries, for example an army of Saxon peasants won a major battle there in 1500 AD, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hemmingstedt" target="_blank">defeating several thousand heavy cavalry and mercenaries</a>. </p><p></p><p>There was a nearly identical situation in nearby Frisia. Look up <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pier_Gerlofs_Donia" target="_blank">Gross Pier</a>.</p><p></p><p>People have already mentioned Scotland and Wales upthread, Ireland could be added to that in spite of being conquered they performed an on again off again guerrilla campaign from the arrival of the Normans until the time of Oliver Cromwell, again using very simple low tech weapons like darts and javelins and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallowglass" target="_blank">heavy infantry in chainmail</a> armed with two-handed swords and axes against sophisticated Elizabethan English armies which had guns and heavy cavalry etc.</p><p></p><p>The Swiss of course, founded their State on exactly this type of resistance. </p><p></p><p>Another region of a great deal of this type of activity was the Pyrennes mountain range between France and Spain, going back to the Bronze Age, there were many examples where lower tech or less well organized people fought off more sophisticated and better equipped invaders, going back to the Romans. </p><p></p><p>Basically there are hundreds of historical examples, if I had more time I'd list a few more but I gotta run.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Galloglaich, post: 5427171, member: 77019"] On another forum, somebody asked about the plausibility of a medieval or pre-industrial society resisting a more sophisticated or high tech invader in a guerrilla war. Most people thought it would be unlikely in a Feudal society. But of course, Ye Olde Days weren't like a Monty Python skit or a Ren Faire. There are several very good Medieval examples of extended guerilla warfare against odds which are hard to imagine could be worse. The Russians were partially conquered by the Mongols in the 13th Century but continued active and passive resistance, in spite of routine massacres on a huge scale. In one exchange in 1380 the Russians [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kulikovo]wiped out an army of 150,000 Mongols and Turks from the Golden Horde[/url], two years later in 1382 another Mongol Army under a different general besieged Moscow and killed 24,000 people after it surrendered. But the Muscovites remained 'difficult'. This went on and on for another 100 years until the Mongols finally [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_standing_on_the_Ugra_river]backed down[/url] rather than face another nasty fight with the Russians during the reign of Ivan III (father of Ivan IV 'the Terrible', the first independent Russian Czar). In Hungary there was similar resistance to first the Mongols, then the Ottomans. Specifically [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skanderbeg]Skanderbeg[/url] and [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hunyadi]John Hunyandi[/url] are worth looking at during the latter period. And of course Vlad Tepis in Romania. In Lithuania they had to deal with the Mongols on one side and the German Teutonic Knights and Livonian Knights on the other side. One particularly good example is Samogitia. This tiny spit of land, a Primeval forest called [B]The Grauden[/B], was invaded over 300 times in the course of 200 years. The invaders were repeatedly caught in ambushes and wiped out, including the infamous Crusading Order of the Sword Brothers which was [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Saule]broken in 1239[/url] and the Livonian Order which was [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Skuodas]crippled in 1259[/url]. The Baltic people who lived there were called the [url=http://samogitia.mch.mii.lt/ISTORIJA/samogit.en.htm]Samogitians[/url], sort of Baltic Vikings. They never surrendered, in spite of being sold-out by their own allies in Lithuania 3 times. They were the last European people to convert to Christianity, in [I]1413 AD[/I]!!, and retained [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Skuodas]their own form of government[/url] called a 'Tribal Eldership' through the 15th Century. They were basically left alone to mind their own business until the 19th Century. Lithuania in general is a good example of Guerilla resistance because they were facing higher technology with much lower-tech, the Germans had plate armor, armored warhorses, giant warships, cannon, crossbows, and guns; the Tartars had horse archers and all kinds of special weapons, as well as a truly modern command and control capability. But the Lithuanians defeated them both using mostly light cavalry armed with javelins and spears, and all kinds of tricks like ambushes and hornets nests and running people into bogs and deadfalls, i.e. clever use of terrain. I have also held forth probably enough on here already about the Bohemians, who also fended off both the Germans and the Mongols successfully and fought any number of guerrilla and open war campaigns to defend their land. Another good example in Europe that most people never heard of is the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dithmarshen#History]Dithmarshen[/url], a swampy region in Saxony (northern Germany). They resisted something like 7 or 8 full scale invasions from Denmark and Germany between the 11th and 16th Centuries, for example an army of Saxon peasants won a major battle there in 1500 AD, [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hemmingstedt]defeating several thousand heavy cavalry and mercenaries[/url]. There was a nearly identical situation in nearby Frisia. Look up [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pier_Gerlofs_Donia]Gross Pier[/url]. People have already mentioned Scotland and Wales upthread, Ireland could be added to that in spite of being conquered they performed an on again off again guerrilla campaign from the arrival of the Normans until the time of Oliver Cromwell, again using very simple low tech weapons like darts and javelins and [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallowglass]heavy infantry in chainmail[/url] armed with two-handed swords and axes against sophisticated Elizabethan English armies which had guns and heavy cavalry etc. The Swiss of course, founded their State on exactly this type of resistance. Another region of a great deal of this type of activity was the Pyrennes mountain range between France and Spain, going back to the Bronze Age, there were many examples where lower tech or less well organized people fought off more sophisticated and better equipped invaders, going back to the Romans. Basically there are hundreds of historical examples, if I had more time I'd list a few more but I gotta run. [/QUOTE]
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