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<blockquote data-quote="Mallus" data-source="post: 3326850" data-attributes="member: 3887"><p>In general, point-buy systems (like M&M) are better at character modeling, and quantized ability package systems (like D&D) are better at niche-protection and maintaining internal balance.</p><p></p><p></p><p>This isn't a system critique, it's a player issue. Applying the same logic to D&D, you'd have to be nuts not to play a cleric...</p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, funny. Let's try this again...</p><p></p><p>Superhero RPG's invite min-maxing. Agree or disagree?</p><p></p><p></p><p>We're talking about a game that simulates <em>comic books</em>... and Golden/Silver Age ones to boot... you know, mostly "POW!", "ZAP!", KABOOM"! Not a genre known for its bloody, ruthless portrayal of violence and its consequences. The game is bound by the conventions and conventional assumptions of the genre it tries to emulate. Play against those assumptions and it gets ugly. Same as with D&D. </p><p></p><p>Consider Champions for a minute, the original gold standard for superhero RPG's. You <em>could</em> build a hero with high-damage, penetrating RKA's, let's call him Super-Sniper, with some sort of invisibility or phasing power. The system <em>allows</em> you do that, even though it runs counter to the <em>spirit</em> of the game... </p><p></p><p></p><p>It shatters your suspension of disbelief in a <em>superhero game</em> if villains don't routinely <em>murder</em> the heroes?! Or trap them in convoluted, nigh-inescapable deathtraps, or any of the other myriad, absurd ways comic book villains fail to kill their nemisis-es.</p><p></p><p>In case you didn't notice, Bond villains share some traits with supervillains. And not just hteir penchant for lairs... </p><p></p><p></p><p>Perhaps you should bone up on the staple comic book conventions. There's some very informative material in the M&M2ed rulebook...</p><p></p><p></p><p>So, in practical terms, no meaningful difference...</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes it is. So? In baseline D&D, its very bad when the DM confirms a crit while using an NPC with a big fixed damage modifier, say like a power-attacking giant.</p><p></p><p></p><p>You knew what I meant... why deny it?</p><p></p><p></p><p>You can heap 'maybes' onto my point to obfuscate, well, my point, but that doesn't help your case any.</p><p></p><p></p><p>No, they're not. But you said 'without saving throws', not 'without save-or-die saving throws'. I agree with you on that one.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Except that you can't do that in the RAW. Not with a single shot. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes. If you add rules/spells/feats that aren't part of the game, you can do David and Goliath...</p><p></p><p></p><p>Wouldn't it go all the way towards making the game challenging?</p><p></p><p></p><p>So how does a finese/precision damage fighter get a meaninful critical againt a foe with a lot of hit points?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mallus, post: 3326850, member: 3887"] In general, point-buy systems (like M&M) are better at character modeling, and quantized ability package systems (like D&D) are better at niche-protection and maintaining internal balance. This isn't a system critique, it's a player issue. Applying the same logic to D&D, you'd have to be nuts not to play a cleric... Again, funny. Let's try this again... Superhero RPG's invite min-maxing. Agree or disagree? We're talking about a game that simulates [i]comic books[/i]... and Golden/Silver Age ones to boot... you know, mostly "POW!", "ZAP!", KABOOM"! Not a genre known for its bloody, ruthless portrayal of violence and its consequences. The game is bound by the conventions and conventional assumptions of the genre it tries to emulate. Play against those assumptions and it gets ugly. Same as with D&D. Consider Champions for a minute, the original gold standard for superhero RPG's. You [i]could[/i] build a hero with high-damage, penetrating RKA's, let's call him Super-Sniper, with some sort of invisibility or phasing power. The system [i]allows[/i] you do that, even though it runs counter to the [i]spirit[/i] of the game... It shatters your suspension of disbelief in a [i]superhero game[/i] if villains don't routinely [i]murder[/i] the heroes?! Or trap them in convoluted, nigh-inescapable deathtraps, or any of the other myriad, absurd ways comic book villains fail to kill their nemisis-es. In case you didn't notice, Bond villains share some traits with supervillains. And not just hteir penchant for lairs... Perhaps you should bone up on the staple comic book conventions. There's some very informative material in the M&M2ed rulebook... So, in practical terms, no meaningful difference... Yes it is. So? In baseline D&D, its very bad when the DM confirms a crit while using an NPC with a big fixed damage modifier, say like a power-attacking giant. You knew what I meant... why deny it? You can heap 'maybes' onto my point to obfuscate, well, my point, but that doesn't help your case any. No, they're not. But you said 'without saving throws', not 'without save-or-die saving throws'. I agree with you on that one. Except that you can't do that in the RAW. Not with a single shot. Yes. If you add rules/spells/feats that aren't part of the game, you can do David and Goliath... Wouldn't it go all the way towards making the game challenging? So how does a finese/precision damage fighter get a meaninful critical againt a foe with a lot of hit points? [/QUOTE]
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