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<blockquote data-quote="gizmo33" data-source="post: 4632943" data-attributes="member: 30001">When you play baseball, do you throw pitches in the people at the stands that aren't playing and then call strike?&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;Is there a game system where this is not the case?&nbsp; There is *some* foe that a PC can fight (technically, all of them, he just might not live) no matter what his hp total is.&nbsp; In fact there is some foe that he can beat no matter what his hp total is.&nbsp; I don't see how this is limited to just 1E/2E.&nbsp;&nbsp;I ran a 1E adventure where a player got grouchy with me because his fighter took damage from an encounter outside of a castle/dungeon before he even entered.&nbsp; He knew the upcoming fight with the BBEGs would be tough and was unhappy that he (and the party) would be fighting the BBEGs without their full hps and spells.&nbsp; Leaving though, would have meant losing the element of surprise.&nbsp; If the &quot;15 minute adventure day&quot; problem didn't exist in 1E then AFAICT it didn't exist in any edition - which may be your point but IMO you should be more direct in that case.&nbsp;It reminds me of the advice in the 1E PHB - &quot;if the party becomes lost, the objctive must immediately be changed ot discovery of a way out&quot;.&nbsp; Why? - because AFAICT this is wilderness survival 101 - if your complete capabilities have been hampered by some incident, then you are taking an unecessary risk by continuing on at anything less than full capabilities.&nbsp; *Knowing where you are* is a capability.&nbsp; Actually the paragraph here gives more conventional definitions of low capability: wounds, dead members, etc.&nbsp; What is left to interpret is what is meant by &quot;seriously weakened&quot;.&nbsp; It was the opinion of the people who proposed the &quot;15 minute adventure problem&quot; theory that any significant encounter would, almost by definition, cause &quot;significant weakening&quot; of the party and therefore PCs (Cimmerian or not) could be reasonably expected to follow Gygax's advice.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="gizmo33, post: 4632943, member: 30001"] When you play baseball, do you throw pitches in the people at the stands that aren't playing and then call strike? Is there a game system where this is not the case? There is *some* foe that a PC can fight (technically, all of them, he just might not live) no matter what his hp total is. In fact there is some foe that he can beat no matter what his hp total is. I don't see how this is limited to just 1E/2E. I ran a 1E adventure where a player got grouchy with me because his fighter took damage from an encounter outside of a castle/dungeon before he even entered. He knew the upcoming fight with the BBEGs would be tough and was unhappy that he (and the party) would be fighting the BBEGs without their full hps and spells. Leaving though, would have meant losing the element of surprise. If the "15 minute adventure day" problem didn't exist in 1E then AFAICT it didn't exist in any edition - which may be your point but IMO you should be more direct in that case. It reminds me of the advice in the 1E PHB - "if the party becomes lost, the objctive must immediately be changed ot discovery of a way out". Why? - because AFAICT this is wilderness survival 101 - if your complete capabilities have been hampered by some incident, then you are taking an unecessary risk by continuing on at anything less than full capabilities. *Knowing where you are* is a capability. Actually the paragraph here gives more conventional definitions of low capability: wounds, dead members, etc. What is left to interpret is what is meant by "seriously weakened". It was the opinion of the people who proposed the "15 minute adventure problem" theory that any significant encounter would, almost by definition, cause "significant weakening" of the party and therefore PCs (Cimmerian or not) could be reasonably expected to follow Gygax's advice. [/QUOTE]

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