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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Wyrmshadows" data-source="post: 3979338" data-attributes="member: 56166">Well I think that I can live without save or die effects myself, because I, as a storyteller DM, want my players to enjoy the contiunuity of a character over perhaps years of play. However, having said that, the threat of death is a meaningful portion of the drama within a campaign that highlights sword-swinging daring do.Feh.I am ambivalent on 4e. I like the fluff changes such as disappearance of the Great Wheel but loathe some of what I am sensing regarding the level of superheroics that might be part of the mechanics.Sounds cool. The threat of death is necessary in a game filled to the hilt with bloodletting and death. D&D is filled with killing when played as expected. Well I feel for his situation. No one, especially those who get emotionally attached to a character, want to lose a beloved and long lived character. My players feel the same way about resurrection/raise dead depending on the context of the death in question. Usually IME players are cool with the honorable death of a PC. Sh*t happens sometimes in a heroic fantasy (or sci-fi or horror) game. Sometimes heroes die.You don't want to risk your life for gold and glory, don't enter the dragon's lair. Action Points or similar mechanics serve this purpose admirably. It allows for a cinematic feel, like a Sword and Sorcery story like Conan where the hero kicks arse but you aren't assured of victory.Now this may work for your group but for the game as a whole:THE WORST IDEA EVER!..to put it mildly.This kind of thing turns Tabletop RPing games into tabletop video games. I am playing through Elder Scrolls Oblivion for the second time and though I love it, it is not and will not be a real role playing game. No matter what happens in this game, I will win. There is no real threat to me because of the save and load function. This allows me to basically cheat the system through the cunning use of save and reload. I like the game because it it light fun, but because it is such light fun, there is no real connection between yourself, your character and the setting. The suspension of disbelief becomes so destroyed through resets that neither I nor my players would really give a rats arse about what happens in the campaign because their success is a forgone conclusion. Why would I, as a DM put forth all kinds od effort creating a setting and a campaign with internal consistancy, believability, interesting villians and challenges when, like the example of Elder Scrolls Oblivion the conclusion is predetermined?"Wow, great way to overcome the BBEG guys! It only took you 3 resets to figure out how to do it! Your songs will be sung for generations."And why only a reset on life or death encounters? How about a reset on botched social interaction? Attempts to interrogate? Attampts to steal the jewels? To hide in shadows? The reset can be applied to anything thereby making the game risk free while at the same time allowing players to feel like they actually accomplished something even though they didn't.Never in a million, billion years would I DM something like this. I wouldn't even play in such a snorefest. Without the risk of failure via either death, all combat would be ultimately pointless. How can someone be proud of their character in the context of combat at least, when the option of hitting reset is available? Also, and not for nothing, the idea of a reset is amount the most metagamey idea I can imagine and this kind of stuff is never good for the game IMO.The reset idea might be good for a light, videogamey, D&D experience. In other words, a "bear and pretzels" game, the very kind of game I do not run. Why run a tabletop videogame when there are actual videogames that do what they do much, much more effectively than D&D ever can?In order to add context to my comments, I am a DM for 24yrs and have never grown out of my "gritty phase." If anything my desire for a deeper, more sophisticated, more adult game full of versimilitude has only increased. I realize that the older I have gotten, the harder it is for me to suspend my disbelief and nonsensical things turn me off. My players feel the same way.Wyrmshadows</blockquote>

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