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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Wyrmshadows" data-source="post: 3980017" data-attributes="member: 56166">After some thought, I have to say that I too am rather disturbed by the player's audacity to say that he might quit playing if he is forced to create another character. If the DM is playing fair, even hard but fair, and the player feels this way, maybe he needs to find a new hobby. This is manipulation pure and simple. Grow up, we have all lost characters.It is certainly a brave new world when PCs are expected to be given success on a silver platter. I never thought that an entitlement mentality would creep so strongly into the game. I cannot stomach "killer DMs" but this is the exact opposite, a DM who is expected to hand-hold the players and make sure that they succeed no matter what.I honestly don't know what the point of a tabletop role playing game is that you just push a button and make all negative consequences go away. Play Baldur's Gate I and II, Planescape Torment, Elder Scrolls Morrowind or Oblivion. All of these have save points that allow one to reset the game guaranteeing success.Without the risk, RPG's become storytelling games of the worst sort. Playing in this kind of game is tantamount to playing in a novel where the characters have plot immunity. Why bother when you know the outcome? I love good novels, but I am not investing a lot of creative effort in reading them. As a DM, I do help build a story, but unlike a novel I can't guarantee the ending I desire because outside of the odd, very rare fudge, the dice fall where the dice fall. Its in the hands of the gods so to speak.  I refuse to guarantee success because in doing so I make a joke of all the work I put into creating challenging adventures. I also rob the PCs of real achievement.Of course its fine if individual groups play this way, if it works for them fine, though I don't see the point of adventure games involving violence that don't allow for death (even with action points). However this variant had better not rear its ugly head in the game officially because then I will know without a doubt that the game I knew is dead.Wyrmshadows.</blockquote>

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