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<blockquote data-quote="Mort" data-source="post: 454544" data-attributes="member: 762">Missing the issue.The real issue isn’t really “does subdual damage turn into real damage” but should a Critical rolled when the intent is to subdue have any chance of killing the target or more specifically should a critical do any more than the player wanted it to do..The real question then is: does a critical hit imply critical success?If so – there should be NO chance of doing anything other than knocking a target out.Let’s take a slightly silly example of not quite the situation presented but one that I think demonstrates the point.There is a target hooked to a tree:Bob: I shoot at the tree above the target.DM: ok, roll to hit.Bob: Wow, I rolled a confirmed critical.DM: Great shot, you hit the target dead center.Bob: Uh, but I was shooting at the tree.DM: But this wasn’t just any hit, it was a critical and I think that deserves a special result, so you hit the target dead center!Bob: But I wanted to hit the tree.DM: Nope sorry, you get a special result because you critted.As shown above, I think a critical that does anything other than what you want it to makes no sense – you are penalizing someone for success.Now that does not mean a subdual strike should have no chance of error (even though none is presented in the rules). One house rule I could live with would be if you miss by less than 4 (the penalty&nbsp; you take to subdue with a non-subdual weapon) you do actual damage. This has its own problems (hitting when you should miss) but I’ve only seen PC’s subdue when they really need something alive and this imposes enough of a penalty</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mort, post: 454544, member: 762"] Missing the issue. The real issue isn’t really “does subdual damage turn into real damage” but should a Critical rolled when the intent is to subdue have any chance of killing the target or more specifically should a critical do any more than the player wanted it to do.. The real question then is: does a critical hit imply critical success? If so – there should be NO chance of doing anything other than knocking a target out. Let’s take a slightly silly example of not quite the situation presented but one that I think demonstrates the point. There is a target hooked to a tree: Bob: I shoot at the tree above the target. DM: ok, roll to hit. Bob: Wow, I rolled a confirmed critical. DM: Great shot, you hit the target dead center. Bob: Uh, but I was shooting at the tree. DM: But this wasn’t just any hit, it was a critical and I think that deserves a special result, so you hit the target dead center! Bob: But I wanted to hit the tree. DM: Nope sorry, you get a special result because you critted. As shown above, I think a critical that does anything other than what you want it to makes no sense – you are penalizing someone for success. Now that does not mean a subdual strike should have no chance of error (even though none is presented in the rules). One house rule I could live with would be if you miss by less than 4 (the penalty you take to subdue with a non-subdual weapon) you do actual damage. This has its own problems (hitting when you should miss) but I’ve only seen PC’s subdue when they really need something alive and this imposes enough of a penalty [/QUOTE]

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