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<blockquote data-quote="GX.Sigma" data-source="post: 6376642" data-attributes="member: 6690511"><p>(Spoilers, by the way)</p><p>What you're saying is: The DM presents an adventure hook to the players. The players can react to it or ignore it. Then the DM presents another adventure hook (of the DM's choice) to the players, and so on.</p><p></p><p><u>That is not a sandbox. That is a railroad.</u> If the players ignore the dragon, nothing happens. If the players ignore the half-dragon, nothing happens. In other words: If they don't follow the plot, they don't get to play. Those missions are complete railroads and have no gameplay value. Additionally, both of those are actually <em>worse</em> for the characters if they participate, since they have to use up resources on a task that doesn't matter!</p><p></p><p>Let's look at the other missions...</p><p></p><p><strong>The Old Tunnel: </strong>Literally a straight line with monsters in the middle, and harder monsters at the end. The only sandboxy thing about this is the result: It creates another exit/entrance to the home base. There's even some mechanical support for it (every time they use it thenceforth, there's a chance that the enemies find it).</p><p></p><p><strong>The Sally Port: </strong>The characters fight a group of monsters in a 10x20 room, then cast a specific spell, then fight another group of monsters. The potentially sandboxy thing about this is that if the PCs ignore it, more raiders can break through the broken gate. However, there's no support for that outcome, and it's not mentioned in the module at all (it assumes the PCs agree to the quest, and succeed), so it doesn't count.</p><p></p><p><strong>Prisoners: </strong>This one makes no sense. Why do the characters have to bring the prisoner back to the keep? My players asked me this question, and I had no good answer. Either way, it's a non-adventure: go out, grab the first cultist you see, come back. How exciting.</p><p></p><p><strong>Save the Mill: </strong>I almost lumped this one in with the dragon and half-dragon encounters, but there is one redeeming quality here: If the PCs realize it's a trap before going in, they can still get XP. However, it doesn't count because the text assumes the players go in anyway, which is stupid. The PCs can also get bonus XP for <em>succeeding on a passive perception check</em>, which is even stupider.</p><p></p><p><strong>Sanctuary: </strong>This one is the only significantly sandboxy mission. There's a clear goal, but many options on how to approach it. There are a few major problems with it, though:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">One approach is clearly better than all the others (and the text even points it out)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">There's no map or anything to help you if the PCs decide to take other approaches</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The outcome is scripted</li> </ul><p>There are a few good ideas in it, though:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A dilemma that requires quick thinking from the players (essentially the same as the one in Tomb of Horrors, but much more forgiving in a variety of ways)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The PCs get XP for each civilian they save, even they manage to avoid all the monsters (actually, the text says that's "in addition to the points for killing monsters," which is stupid, so it doesn't count)</li> </ul><p>That's one legitimately sandboxy idea in the whole first episode.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="GX.Sigma, post: 6376642, member: 6690511"] (Spoilers, by the way) What you're saying is: The DM presents an adventure hook to the players. The players can react to it or ignore it. Then the DM presents another adventure hook (of the DM's choice) to the players, and so on. [U]That is not a sandbox. That is a railroad.[/U] If the players ignore the dragon, nothing happens. If the players ignore the half-dragon, nothing happens. In other words: If they don't follow the plot, they don't get to play. Those missions are complete railroads and have no gameplay value. Additionally, both of those are actually [I]worse[/I] for the characters if they participate, since they have to use up resources on a task that doesn't matter! Let's look at the other missions... [B]The Old Tunnel: [/B]Literally a straight line with monsters in the middle, and harder monsters at the end. The only sandboxy thing about this is the result: It creates another exit/entrance to the home base. There's even some mechanical support for it (every time they use it thenceforth, there's a chance that the enemies find it). [B]The Sally Port: [/B]The characters fight a group of monsters in a 10x20 room, then cast a specific spell, then fight another group of monsters. The potentially sandboxy thing about this is that if the PCs ignore it, more raiders can break through the broken gate. However, there's no support for that outcome, and it's not mentioned in the module at all (it assumes the PCs agree to the quest, and succeed), so it doesn't count. [B]Prisoners: [/B]This one makes no sense. Why do the characters have to bring the prisoner back to the keep? My players asked me this question, and I had no good answer. Either way, it's a non-adventure: go out, grab the first cultist you see, come back. How exciting. [B]Save the Mill: [/B]I almost lumped this one in with the dragon and half-dragon encounters, but there is one redeeming quality here: If the PCs realize it's a trap before going in, they can still get XP. However, it doesn't count because the text assumes the players go in anyway, which is stupid. The PCs can also get bonus XP for [I]succeeding on a passive perception check[/I], which is even stupider. [B]Sanctuary: [/B]This one is the only significantly sandboxy mission. There's a clear goal, but many options on how to approach it. There are a few major problems with it, though: [LIST] [*]One approach is clearly better than all the others (and the text even points it out) [*]There's no map or anything to help you if the PCs decide to take other approaches [*]The outcome is scripted [/LIST] There are a few good ideas in it, though: [LIST] [*]A dilemma that requires quick thinking from the players (essentially the same as the one in Tomb of Horrors, but much more forgiving in a variety of ways) [*]The PCs get XP for each civilian they save, even they manage to avoid all the monsters (actually, the text says that's "in addition to the points for killing monsters," which is stupid, so it doesn't count) [/LIST] That's one legitimately sandboxy idea in the whole first episode. [/QUOTE]
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