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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nadaka" data-source="post: 3199485" data-attributes="member: 14651">A hobgoblin at LA +1 is kinda weak at very low levels (<5). then it eventually balances out. Even at low levels it isnt bad. Take a look at a hobgoblin rogue 3  vs a human rogue 4. The human has 1 extra feat, and quite a bit more skill points, and depending on con, 0 to 4 extra HP. They have the same reflex save, the hobgoblin has a better fort save, the hob has a better attack bonus with ranged and (possibly)finess weapons and can match his skill bonus with dex based skills. In addition he has darkvision and a hide 4 points higher than the human. The human may be more flexible with the extra feat and skill points, but the hobgoblin is significantly better at stealth and an equal in core dex based rogue skills. Within just a few more levels, the hobs con bonus hp will surpass the average 3.5 hp + con mod of even the hardiest of humans and significantly make up for his reduced number of skill points.Another thing to consider is that when using point buy, a hob can more easilly achieve those high scores and save a large number of points on point buy. It costs a hob only 20 points to get an 18 con and 18 dex vs a humans 32 points. Or even when rolling a hob can afford to reprioritize his ability score placement for added efficiency due to the specific bonuses.Are hobs a strong LA +1, no. They might be a little weak for LA +1. But they are strong enough that without the LA, they make arguably better choices for rogue than halflings and definately better choice for wizard than elves, its a bit of a stretch but they also match the dwarf and human capabilities in the combat role.  Since they are better than many core races at thier supposed best class, and the equal of many more, I would say that yes, they need the LA to be balanced.</blockquote>

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