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<blockquote data-quote="Particle_Man" data-source="post: 7058500" data-attributes="member: 892">Hobgoblins are described as &quot;burly and muscled&quot; in the advanced race guide, as well as &quot;Tall, tough as nails, and strongly built&quot;. Taller than what? Goblins? The Bestiary says they are 5' tall and weigh 160 lbs.Militaristic, war-loving, etc. OK, fine. They are meant to be lawful, disciplined orcs according to the fluff.But the racial description of hobgoblins doesn't match that. There is no strength bonus for hobgoblins. They do get Con, which at least matches some of the fluff, but instead of Str they get Dex. They have a skill bonus is for stealth, which is nice, but more for &quot;quiet rogue/ninja types&quot; than for &quot;militaristic war types&quot;.Hobgoblin crunch doesn't make them good warriors (well, archers, but that is very specialized - you can't field an army with *only* archers). It makes them good rogues.Hobgoblin crunch makes for good &quot;sneaky&quot; types. The monster that hides under the bed or in the closet (it can see in the dark, after all).The crunch and fluff diverge in another way. In the bestiary description of hobgoblins, &quot;Many hobgoblin tribes combine their love of warfare with keen intellects&quot;. You'd think that this would mean either an INT bonus or perhaps some kind of skill bonus related to warfare (knowledge engineering perhaps?). But that isn't the case. It is at best an &quot;alternate racial trait&quot;. Most hobgoblins are sneaks.So what should give way? Should the fluff be changed to match the crunch? Or should the crunch be modified to match the fluff?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Particle_Man, post: 7058500, member: 892"] Hobgoblins are described as "burly and muscled" in the advanced race guide, as well as "Tall, tough as nails, and strongly built". Taller than what? Goblins? The Bestiary says they are 5' tall and weigh 160 lbs. Militaristic, war-loving, etc. OK, fine. They are meant to be lawful, disciplined orcs according to the fluff. But the racial description of hobgoblins doesn't match that. There is no strength bonus for hobgoblins. They do get Con, which at least matches some of the fluff, but instead of Str they get Dex. They have a skill bonus is for stealth, which is nice, but more for "quiet rogue/ninja types" than for "militaristic war types". Hobgoblin crunch doesn't make them good warriors (well, archers, but that is very specialized - you can't field an army with *only* archers). It makes them good rogues. Hobgoblin crunch makes for good "sneaky" types. The monster that hides under the bed or in the closet (it can see in the dark, after all). The crunch and fluff diverge in another way. In the bestiary description of hobgoblins, "Many hobgoblin tribes combine their love of warfare with keen intellects". You'd think that this would mean either an INT bonus or perhaps some kind of skill bonus related to warfare (knowledge engineering perhaps?). But that isn't the case. It is at best an "alternate racial trait". Most hobgoblins are sneaks. So what should give way? Should the fluff be changed to match the crunch? Or should the crunch be modified to match the fluff? [/QUOTE]

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