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Message: <blockquote data-quote="LokiDR" data-source="post: 940255" data-attributes="member: 6239">Fly empowers them to move.  Now, do they fly by physical means or mental means?  Hold person makes a clear distinction.  Hold person does not prevent everything that would result in movement of the held character.I think the rules are clear.  Perhaps not black and white, but the answer is in there.Physical movement could either mean they are 1) prevented from controling their body, or it could mean they are 2) prevented from moving by any means.  If #2 is case, falling is a catch 22.  Stop you wings, you will move.  If you keep your wings moving, you are moving.  The case has another problem in that Hold Person allows specifically mental actions.  Couldn't those be used to move you?  Shouldn't that have a note on it that you can not use mental actions to move?But that is not the way hold person is written.  Those holes do not exist in theory #1.  Compulsion is irrelevant, since compulsion just means the person has no choice.  Physical movement means physically controling your body directly, hence the difference between physical actions and mental actions.There are other spells that give you wings.  Fly does not do that.  From all appearences (except that 90' vs 60' thing) you just then and therefore move.  Does hold person prevent you from contemplating movement?Does hold person prevent control of spells?Does fly require you to move your body?Does the fly spell give you an additional physical capability, such as wings?Does hold person stop the fly spell?I answer no right down the line.Don't get me wrong.  I don't thing this is as simple as page some one has not seen.  There are good reasons for a person to rule in the opposite way.  But I don't see those rulings as interpretations of rules, but instead as house rules.  I would accept a DM calling it that way, but not if he said that is offical rule.  If I judge a Living game, I will use this same mentality.  When I judge my own game, I might see it the other way around.  I don't mean to call any person arguing against my position as "stupid" only as misunderstanding the larger interaction between spells within the rules.</blockquote>

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