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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Belbarrus" data-source="post: 940382" data-attributes="member: 10962">To summarize the debate so far and my (and others, but speaking for myself) side of it:Those against, moving with a Fly when Held: the spell immoblizes the target with a magical compulsion for the target to not voluntarily move.Those for, moving with a Fly spell while held: The Hold person spell states that "mental actions" can still be performed. Moving with the Fly spell is a mental action and therefore you can still move while under the influence of this spell.So the whole debate comes down to this: Is moving with the Fly spell a physical movement or only a mental action?There are several spells or actions specifically state "mental" control:Levitate spell: "You can mentally direct the recipient..."Evil Clerics commanding undead: "...undead creature is under the mental control of the evil cleric."Status spell: ...allows him to mentally monitor..."Fly spell does not state that moving with it is a "mental action". For example, the description does not say, "The recipient can mentally direct the path of his flight."The rulebook also does not have any entry detailing what a "mental action" is or what sort of limitation is imposed on an action that "requires as much concentration as walking". The closest thing that I could find is "Concentrating to Maintain a spell." (p. 125 pf PHB). But this indicates that Concentrating to maintain a spell is a standard action and anything that could stop you from casting a spell also stops you from concentrating on one.Frankly I think this is a matter of having to prove that moving with a  Fly spell is a mental action, as opposed to being  a "move" action. If you were at Point A (in 3 dimensional space, lets say) and you moved to Point B, then you "moved" and the Hold spell prevents you from doing this voluntarily. Whether you got there because you walked, climbed, swam or flew is irrevalant. Getting there by other means is acceptable. You can cast a silent, still teleport as a mental action, because the spell is not preventing you from casting a mental spell (For example, the action you are taking is a spell casting action, not a move action). If the *end result* of the spell relocates you, you still have not moved yourself on your own accord (for example, Hold does not stop someone else teleporting you either). If someone carried you this is fine, because you are not moving on your own accord. If you fell (because you could not flap wings for example), this is fine because you are not moving voluntarily. You can levitate (because the spell specifically states that you  can control the levitation as a mental action).As I said before, moving with a Fly spell being a "mental action" is interpretation. There is no rule (unless someone can point out the page and which rulebook) that confirms this. Moving with a Fly spell is still considered "moving".Also, the idea that the "enchanment Compulsion"spell alters the targets thinking has been frequently critized. Meanwhile the defense is usually, "the spell stops the brain sending messages to the body". But the rules do NOT state that anywhere, not even remotely.I think it comes down to a house rules thing. Those that say that Fly-ing is moving and therefore prohibited when held and those that state that you are not moving with a Fly spell you are "mentally" controlling the effects of a spell which, indirectly, cause you to move about.</blockquote>

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