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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Old Gumphrey" data-source="post: 4802311" data-attributes="member: 12872">I fixed that for you.I'm surprised I actually got support on this point. =POn the invoker, are you talking about Divine Bolts? How the HECK does Divine Bolts deal more damage than a striker? That's absurd. Level 5...2d6 + 14 is still less than 2d10 + 4 + 1d8 or 1d4 + 2d8 + 10...and the striker can still put it all on one target. If anything, I'd say the Invoker is an example of what the wizard shoulda coulda woulda.If you're not talking about Divine Bolts, I think I misread the class or something...they still suffer the same limitations as the wizard with "you wind up hitting your own guys a lot". Wizards have a feat tax to get around stuff the Cleric gets around for free, with twinkies.Glass cannons with the same or better defense values as defenders. Just whipping out my party's level 8 sheets...Ranger: A 23, F 19, R 23, W 21; Total Values 86Paladin: A 25, F 22, R 17, W 20; Total Values 84Warlock: A 22, F 17, R 21, W 23; Total Values 83All 3 of these characters each have +2 armor and +2 neck slot items. As you can see, their defenses are nearly identical. I'll concede that if the paladin carried a heavy shield, his defenses would look a bit bigger (an extra 4 total defense points, specifically)...but if he was carrying a shield, he wouldn't be smacking people upside the head with 8d6 (brutal 1) mordenkrad damage on that level 5 daily. He's nearly a striker with his damage output, but trades that last bit of damage for piles of healing; which, he would arguably not need if he were hitting as hard as a striker.My point is that if you build a full tank, you lose a lot of damage output for not a lot of defensive gain. Yeah, the tank protects the strikers...but if he was a striker himself, the bad guys would go down faster, thus eliminating the need for him to be there in the first place. My OTHER point is that strikers get TRUCK LOADS of ways to GTFO. The ranger, holy hell.DM: This orc charges you.Ranger: Oh, really? I shift 4 squares away from him before he attacks.Next round DM: Ok, this other orc gives you the evil eye from across the glade.Ranger: No way, I shoot him for 20 damage. He misses.DM: It's not even your turn...Ranger: I know, I can only use it when its not my turn. lolAnd the warlock just teleports wherever he wants, nobody can threaten him for long. Strikers have great defenses and, if played right, are barely able to be engaged, much less seriously threatened. Unless you're talking Avengers...then instead of 3 ways to just GTFO, you have even higher defenses, and more HP and surges, with ways to spend them in combat.</blockquote>

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