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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Machus" data-source="post: 4812487" data-attributes="member: 72271">Hard to disagree.  Strikers in 4e combat, seem relative to other careers, outstanding.  They are not glass cannons, as one might see in well balanced cooperative MMOs or other similar games.  Especially if the coordinate, and play off one another, they can really shore up any perceived holes in their gameplay.  And skills aren't dismal, and with a feat or two, can be rounded out nicely.Bards and Wizards do have some nice out of combat roleplay perks, like good access to rituals and other things that play into the role playing experience and advancing the plot (with a few feats strikers can do most of that too though).  They also have an entirely different feel to them, and with a good GM, it should be a ton of fun.RP games driven by a GM excel at providing challenge, story, tactics, and surprises, because they have a GM.  If the party has optimized to be a combat meat-grinder, the GM must optimize to challenge them.  If not, it's just bad GMing.  Who wants to be a badarse optimized rogue assassin with a high DPS answer for any situation, when you fight weak encounters?  Its purely a GM issue IMO.It would be like having a party with no healers, and forcing them to have to have a healer to finish every encounter.  Who'd enjoy that?  Or playing a controller when the GM never uses hordes of minons...ever.  Thanks but no thanks.  If the GM doesn't want to create fun for the players, no sense in playing a GM'd game.GMs have the hardest role, to make sure the game is fun for any class combination the players choose.  As long as it's not over-the-top obvious trying to find holes in their skills and exploiting it, with a good GM, the game will be good.  If you play with a non-optimized group, in a very story-driven, challenging campaign, and all you do is single target massive damage in combat, it's probably not going to be as fun as it was optimizing it on paper.  Of course, 3.5 had wizards being super-verastile, super flavorful, and super powerful...maybe 4e is a slap-down to that <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />As the above poster mentioned, how many groups have 3 controllers?Ironically using the dreaded MMO reference, AOE as a soloer or without other AOErs was often not welcome in groups, it was entirely inefficient.  So they formed AOE groups and set new records for kill rates....</blockquote>

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