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Message: <blockquote data-quote="javcs" data-source="post: 4819890" data-attributes="member: 43677">My experience is vastly different than yours, then.In one of my games, the group is currently composed of 3 strikers, 1 leader, 1 defender, 1 controller, consisting of a fighter, a ranger, a rogue, a warlock, a warlord, and a wizard. I joined about 2 sessions in, and apparently no-one before then had really gone down. My initial character was a rogue, opening fight I got in somewhat over my head, mainly due to some stupidity/lack of adjustment from 3.x and good rolls on the DM's part, but I stayed up, granted I was worst off in the group, second only to the warlord (he was out of in-combat healing and down to single digits), and I'd been taking the brunt of the opposition - what damage I wasn't taking was due to the fact that there were only so many melee opponents that could hit me - I was back against a wall. That was the first fight where anyone had come close to going down. I realized that I liked rangers better and prepped to swap out. Soon after (out of game), we run into a massive (40+ opponents, about 3/4ths minions) war party - the DM says he's trying to find our limits - and aren't optimally positioned to start with, possibly exacerbating things is the fact that we experimented with a hex grid for this battle (Note: 4th ed doesn't play nice with hexes). The DM's dice were hot, and ours weren't doing so well; the party looses initiative, the rogue gets gang-flanked by 3 non-minions and a minion, with one non-flanking minion, the fighter is completely surrounded by a mix of minions and non-minions (with horrendous to-hit dice), the wizard gets only partly swarmed by minions with a couple non-minions, the warlord is swarmed by minions, the warlock got minions in his face early on but quickly got out of the mass of opposition away from the enemy artillery, and my (then still) rogue had only minions but fey stepped out to solo the enemy artillery along with their attendant minions and non-minion defenders. By the end of the combat, the wizard was dead (second wind used), the fighter was in single digits and had gone down twice (second wind used), the warlord was out of healing abilities and bloodied (second wind remaining), the warlock was nearly full-up and had some temp HP (second wind remaining), the other rogue had gone down twice, and only by a couple HP both times, but was still alive, and my rogue had been hit once (second wind remaining). I believe that we all expected the other rogue to die - the DM even tried to have one of the last remaining enemies break away and kill her, but failed. We got the wizard raised.Those are the only times in that campaign that one of the strikers has come close to going down. And, for the record, while the ranger I switched to can handle ranged combat just fine, it's primarily a twf-melee build. The wizard, the warlord, and the fighter each have gone down/come closer to going down, more times than each of the strikers, and possibly more times than all of the strikers combined.</blockquote>

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