Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
[Homebrew] How much can we buff sorcerer and spontaneous casters without breaking the game?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="DammitVictor" data-source="post: 8134432" data-attributes="member: 6750908"><p>Giving them the ability to change their "known spells" (like an Arcanist from PF1) from their class spell list or a spellbook makes them Tier 1.</p><p>Warmage casting off of one of the main 0-9th level lists, or Arcanist casting off of all main spell lists is Tier 0.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I have not bothered trying to really tweak 3.PF in quite some time, and I'm behind the curve on things like psychic magic, but my general ideas are:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">All full spellcasters (9th level spells) gain new spell levels like Sorcerers. Prepared casters prepare half (round up) as many spells, subtract 1 spell per spell level, and have 4 maximum spell slots per level.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wizard and Sorcerer lists separate, trimmed differently.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wizards get "universal spells" that any Wizard can use, plus five schools. (Or three elements.) Prohibited spells can only be learned via Discovery. Spell Mastery makes one spell "always prepared", in addition to its normal function.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Sorcerers get "universal spells", plus Bloodline spells expanded per <em>Player Paraphenalia #133-#135</em> by <em>The Knotty Works</em>. They may learn bloodline spells as if they were on their class spell list.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Divine classes (see below) have limited spellcasting lists but cast like Warmages.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Clerics add their Domain spells to their class spell list. Every four levels (5th, 9th, 13th, 17th) they get Advanced Learning that allows them to choose two (normal) Cleric spells or Domain spells from Domains available to their faith of one level lower than the maximum they can cast.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Paladin: no change to spell list. They gain Advanced Learning (1 Cleric/Domain spell) every time they gain a level of spells.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Warpriests use Cleric spell list plus Domain spells according to their Blessings. Advanced Learning as Paladin.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Inquisitors and Oracles: I don't know. I don't even know.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Rangers, Druids, and Hunters are <em>primal</em> and they're spontaneous. Rangers use Bloodrager tables, Hunters use Bard.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wouldn't it be neat if Rangers' spell selection was enhanced by their primary Favored Enemy and Favored Terrain?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Druids and Hunters get +1 spell known per spell level, in addition to <em>summon nature's ally</em> and/or Domain spells.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Shugenja are OGC. I like to think <em>noone knows that</em>, but in truth it's just that nobody cares. Their spellcasting is fine, they just need more class features.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bards and Maguses (and Bloodragers) are largely unchanged. They can choose to be prepared or spontaneous.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bards and Maguses get Advanced Learning, 1 spell up to max level, at 6th and every three levels after. Bards can learn Druid and Witch spells, while Maguses can learn any Wizard/School spell.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I literally have no idea what to do with Alchemists/Investigators, Shamans, Skalds, spellcasting Vigilantes, or psychic spellcasters.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I strongly prefer DSP psionics to psychic magic, but I think there <em>should</em> be some way to reconcile the two, thematically and mechanically.</li> </ul></li> </ul><p>As for Feats:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Metamagic Feats stack like Draconic Feats: each includes 1 Sudden use per X Metamagic Feats, where X is (maybe) the slot adjustment?<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I really wish Draconic feats existed for other bloodlines.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">No Metamagic casting time penalty for spontaneous/granted casters. Prepared casters can cast metamagic with the penalty, or prepare the spell with metamagic in advance, like Arcanists.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Spell Mastery allows you to prepare INT mod spells without your book/familiar and choose one spell you know to always be prepared without counting against your spells prepared. Requires "prepares spells", not "spellbook"</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Expanded Arcana allows you to choose from your bonus spell list(s). (Bonus spells are always on your class spell list.)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You can take Extra Advanced Learning as a feat once for every time you gain it from your class.</li> </ul><p></p><p>Just some thoughts.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DammitVictor, post: 8134432, member: 6750908"] Giving them the ability to change their "known spells" (like an Arcanist from PF1) from their class spell list or a spellbook makes them Tier 1. Warmage casting off of one of the main 0-9th level lists, or Arcanist casting off of all main spell lists is Tier 0. I have not bothered trying to really tweak 3.PF in quite some time, and I'm behind the curve on things like psychic magic, but my general ideas are: [LIST] [*]All full spellcasters (9th level spells) gain new spell levels like Sorcerers. Prepared casters prepare half (round up) as many spells, subtract 1 spell per spell level, and have 4 maximum spell slots per level. [*]Wizard and Sorcerer lists separate, trimmed differently. [LIST] [*]Wizards get "universal spells" that any Wizard can use, plus five schools. (Or three elements.) Prohibited spells can only be learned via Discovery. Spell Mastery makes one spell "always prepared", in addition to its normal function. [*]Sorcerers get "universal spells", plus Bloodline spells expanded per [I]Player Paraphenalia #133-#135[/I] by [I]The Knotty Works[/I]. They may learn bloodline spells as if they were on their class spell list. [/LIST] [*]Divine classes (see below) have limited spellcasting lists but cast like Warmages. [LIST] [*]Clerics add their Domain spells to their class spell list. Every four levels (5th, 9th, 13th, 17th) they get Advanced Learning that allows them to choose two (normal) Cleric spells or Domain spells from Domains available to their faith of one level lower than the maximum they can cast. [*]Paladin: no change to spell list. They gain Advanced Learning (1 Cleric/Domain spell) every time they gain a level of spells. [*]Warpriests use Cleric spell list plus Domain spells according to their Blessings. Advanced Learning as Paladin. [*]Inquisitors and Oracles: I don't know. I don't even know. [/LIST] [*]Rangers, Druids, and Hunters are [I]primal[/I] and they're spontaneous. Rangers use Bloodrager tables, Hunters use Bard. [LIST] [*]Wouldn't it be neat if Rangers' spell selection was enhanced by their primary Favored Enemy and Favored Terrain? [*]Druids and Hunters get +1 spell known per spell level, in addition to [I]summon nature's ally[/I] and/or Domain spells. [*]Shugenja are OGC. I like to think [I]noone knows that[/I], but in truth it's just that nobody cares. Their spellcasting is fine, they just need more class features. [/LIST] [*]Bards and Maguses (and Bloodragers) are largely unchanged. They can choose to be prepared or spontaneous. [LIST] [*]Bards and Maguses get Advanced Learning, 1 spell up to max level, at 6th and every three levels after. Bards can learn Druid and Witch spells, while Maguses can learn any Wizard/School spell. [/LIST] [*]I literally have no idea what to do with Alchemists/Investigators, Shamans, Skalds, spellcasting Vigilantes, or psychic spellcasters. [LIST] [*]I strongly prefer DSP psionics to psychic magic, but I think there [I]should[/I] be some way to reconcile the two, thematically and mechanically. [/LIST] [/LIST] As for Feats: [LIST] [*]Metamagic Feats stack like Draconic Feats: each includes 1 Sudden use per X Metamagic Feats, where X is (maybe) the slot adjustment? [LIST] [*]I really wish Draconic feats existed for other bloodlines. [/LIST] [*]No Metamagic casting time penalty for spontaneous/granted casters. Prepared casters can cast metamagic with the penalty, or prepare the spell with metamagic in advance, like Arcanists. [*]Spell Mastery allows you to prepare INT mod spells without your book/familiar and choose one spell you know to always be prepared without counting against your spells prepared. Requires "prepares spells", not "spellbook" [*]Expanded Arcana allows you to choose from your bonus spell list(s). (Bonus spells are always on your class spell list.) [*]You can take Extra Advanced Learning as a feat once for every time you gain it from your class. [/LIST] Just some thoughts. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
[Homebrew] How much can we buff sorcerer and spontaneous casters without breaking the game?
Top