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Message: <blockquote data-quote="TiwazTyrsfist" data-source="post: 7488549" data-attributes="member: 70582">It really depends what you want to do with a "No Gods" setting.Possibilities1> There is no divine.  Therefore there is no Divine Magic.__A> There are no Divine casters at all.  No Clerics, No Paladins, probably no Druids or Rangers.  Maybe allow Paladins and Rangers with spell casting swapped out for a number of bonus feats?__B> Divine magic is reskinned.  You have orders of mages.  One order uses Wizard spell list.  Another order, Still using the Wizard class (HP, Saves, Profs, etc) uses the Cleric Spell list.  The types of magic are "Incompatible", which is why Wizards from one order can't learn spells from the other list.  This allows for healing etc without having Gods or Divine.  Rename anything with the word divine in it.__C> No "Divine" Magic, BUT allow Arcane healing.  Basically, pull the key divine spells (Healing, Resurrections) and add them to the Arcane list.  Heck, Bards already get Cure Wounds, Healing Word, Mass Cure Wounds, and Power Word Heal.  Either add them at the same level Clerics get them if you want to keep healing consistent with normal, or bump them up a level or two, and add/increase costly components if you want to reduce healing to make it feel harsher.2> There are no GODS.  There IS however a metaphysical substrate of divine energy.  Clerics either follow Ideals, or perhaps believe in gods that don't actually exist, but their faith and dedication give them a channel to the divine power.__?>Why would it matter, in such a setting, if gods were real or not?  Answer: Existence of factual gods Enforces moral systems and social systems.  If Lorgblad god of cheese exists, and Lorgblad says "You will behave in this way, and you will accept the leadership of Timmy whom I have appointed by Divine Right as your king." you do these things because otherwise you are divinely punished.  If Lorgblad DOESN'T EXIST, then suddenly you don't HAVE to eat a pound of cheese every meal, sacrifice a dairy goat every 17th of Grune, and KING TIMMY IS GETTIN' THE AXE.  Or in other words, in a fantasy setting the existence or non-existence of gods may effect morality and social structure.Junk I learned by binge watching "The Good Place"Moral Dessert - the concept that you act in a certain way (i.e. GOOD) because you expect some sort of reward.  You obey the rules of morality for the promise of eternal reward in the afterlife.  How does morality and human behavior change/differ between settings where you KNOW the gods exist because sometimes they physically manifest and do stuff, and settings where you KNOW absolutely without doubt that no gods exist, and therefore there IS NO MORAL DESSERT?PERSONALLY, I find that removing access to healing unbalances the game, so I usually either lean towards "Clerics faith provides them spell casting even without gods" or "Wizards and Sorcerers can now pick up these spells from the Cleric list"</blockquote>

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