Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
[Homebrew] In a godless campaign what do you with clerics?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Ath-kethin" data-source="post: 7488571" data-attributes="member: 6798775"><p>At least three major officially published settings have taken the "no gods," or at least "no gods that are just really powerful monsters" approach: Dark Sun, Al-Qadim, and Eberron. Some would argue that we should add Mystara to the list, but the "gods" in Mystara are really powerful (former) PCs instead of just powerful monsters. To my eyes it's the same thing.</p><p></p><p>Dark Sun's approach is interesting because it just replaces "gods" with elemental forces - an almost Lovecraftian take if you think about it. The Plane of Fire doesn't care if you draw power from it, it has no use or concern for you in the slightest, but you can use it as a path to power. Dark Sun also had those who worshiped the Dragon Kings and drew power from them - a more on-the-nose take on the typical "massively powerful monster hands down divine power" trope. All in all, Dark Sun is a very Lovecraftian/Howardian take on religions: you can worship physical, mortal beings as gods or draw power from unconcerned entities barely within your comprehension. And that's a cool approach.</p><p></p><p>Al-Qadim, despite being nominally a part of the Forgotten Realms, had a completely different take on gods and religions, stressing the "religion" part far more than the "god" part. There were no statted out deities (well, at least until Hackmaster got ahold of them), because deities weren't monsters to be found and conquered or served, they embodied principles and ideas and how you specifically followed those principles and ideas mattered. There were literally different class options for characters who felt that their deity was the only one and characters who just felt that while others existed theirs was the best and characters who just followed them all. The game effects were minimal, but the world-building and social implications are huge. There were also class options for characters who followed none of the major gods and instead worshiped nature or minor regional gods or what have you. So I'd call this approach gods-as-religions. Which is also cool. And is among the reasons Al-Qadim fits awkwardly at best within the Forgotten Realms; the entire cosmological basis of the setting is different. The Al-Qadim gods never wandered around getting into card games or orgies or whatever with mortals - there was in fact no definitive proof that the Al-Qadim gods were anything more than distant ideas. </p><p></p><p>Eberron took more of the Al-Qadim approach and had pantheons of gods worshiped in different ways and under different names depending on what culture you were from. They also had ancestor worship, an ancient half-dragon lich who was the head and focus of her own religion, and more, but also stressed that people follow religions for different reasons, and allowed that good people could follow incredibly evil organizations and vice versa. Eberron also avoided the gods-as-big-monsters trope, and stressed that the power of clerics and paladins and so forth came form their own personal convictions within, not by tapping into some other being like a battery. So I'd call this one a more removed, self-focused religious structure that fully decoupled clerical and magical power from the beings that were the subject of worship. I'd say that approach might just be my favorite, since it lays the onus of power squarely on the individual and how firmly they believe in what they are doing and the cause they serve. No giant monster in the sky is going to save your butt when your faith flags; sorry, Cardinal.</p><p></p><p>D&D works fine without gods, and in my opinion is far more interesting without them. Faith in a creature you know will show up and devour you for failing to prove your loyalty is far less impressive than a devotion to your ideals that is literally so strong it can change reality. </p><p></p><p>YMMV.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ath-kethin, post: 7488571, member: 6798775"] At least three major officially published settings have taken the "no gods," or at least "no gods that are just really powerful monsters" approach: Dark Sun, Al-Qadim, and Eberron. Some would argue that we should add Mystara to the list, but the "gods" in Mystara are really powerful (former) PCs instead of just powerful monsters. To my eyes it's the same thing. Dark Sun's approach is interesting because it just replaces "gods" with elemental forces - an almost Lovecraftian take if you think about it. The Plane of Fire doesn't care if you draw power from it, it has no use or concern for you in the slightest, but you can use it as a path to power. Dark Sun also had those who worshiped the Dragon Kings and drew power from them - a more on-the-nose take on the typical "massively powerful monster hands down divine power" trope. All in all, Dark Sun is a very Lovecraftian/Howardian take on religions: you can worship physical, mortal beings as gods or draw power from unconcerned entities barely within your comprehension. And that's a cool approach. Al-Qadim, despite being nominally a part of the Forgotten Realms, had a completely different take on gods and religions, stressing the "religion" part far more than the "god" part. There were no statted out deities (well, at least until Hackmaster got ahold of them), because deities weren't monsters to be found and conquered or served, they embodied principles and ideas and how you specifically followed those principles and ideas mattered. There were literally different class options for characters who felt that their deity was the only one and characters who just felt that while others existed theirs was the best and characters who just followed them all. The game effects were minimal, but the world-building and social implications are huge. There were also class options for characters who followed none of the major gods and instead worshiped nature or minor regional gods or what have you. So I'd call this approach gods-as-religions. Which is also cool. And is among the reasons Al-Qadim fits awkwardly at best within the Forgotten Realms; the entire cosmological basis of the setting is different. The Al-Qadim gods never wandered around getting into card games or orgies or whatever with mortals - there was in fact no definitive proof that the Al-Qadim gods were anything more than distant ideas. Eberron took more of the Al-Qadim approach and had pantheons of gods worshiped in different ways and under different names depending on what culture you were from. They also had ancestor worship, an ancient half-dragon lich who was the head and focus of her own religion, and more, but also stressed that people follow religions for different reasons, and allowed that good people could follow incredibly evil organizations and vice versa. Eberron also avoided the gods-as-big-monsters trope, and stressed that the power of clerics and paladins and so forth came form their own personal convictions within, not by tapping into some other being like a battery. So I'd call this one a more removed, self-focused religious structure that fully decoupled clerical and magical power from the beings that were the subject of worship. I'd say that approach might just be my favorite, since it lays the onus of power squarely on the individual and how firmly they believe in what they are doing and the cause they serve. No giant monster in the sky is going to save your butt when your faith flags; sorry, Cardinal. D&D works fine without gods, and in my opinion is far more interesting without them. Faith in a creature you know will show up and devour you for failing to prove your loyalty is far less impressive than a devotion to your ideals that is literally so strong it can change reality. YMMV. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
[Homebrew] In a godless campaign what do you with clerics?
Top