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<blockquote data-quote="5ekyu" data-source="post: 7359481" data-attributes="member: 6919838">I think that the basic system has a built in fail that mskes head in sand suffocation inevitable.At 5th level, characters have (and tend to take) 3-4 times the Hp they have at 1st. At 10th, thats maybe conservatively 6-8 times. So any armor durability rules that make it a factor at all at 1-3&nbsp; but leaves armor durability the same at 5th, 10th etc is going to see massive drawbacks to failure soon enough unless the GM decides to, as some suggested, give out magic armor so everybody gets it. Why,put in system that puts all rhis in if it then requires you to give out items to throw it away by say 10th? If in your games the armir wearers are beating the spellcasters so badly, then it makes sense.In your games, if heavy armor builds are outshining light armor plus dex plus spell based builds, then it makes sense.Those are just not results i see overwhelmingly happening in games i play, run or see discussed.Big Picture: Some character concepts in the fantasy genre have real world analogs but others dont. That is where the flaw in the general approach of &quot;hey lets add more realism in&quot; runs aground. We dont have &quot;real world&quot; magic to extrapolate these &quot;logical&quot; additions into for spells. We dont have &quot;massive hit dice gains&quot; to extrapolate into.So, it ends up being a skew to already tenuous balances between the character concepts and game elements that are trying to represent somewhat mundane elements as competitive in the magic world.This is a great way to get armor wearer PCs out of the game.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="5ekyu, post: 7359481, member: 6919838"] I think that the basic system has a built in fail that mskes head in sand suffocation inevitable. At 5th level, characters have (and tend to take) 3-4 times the Hp they have at 1st. At 10th, thats maybe conservatively 6-8 times. So any armor durability rules that make it a factor at all at 1-3 but leaves armor durability the same at 5th, 10th etc is going to see massive drawbacks to failure soon enough unless the GM decides to, as some suggested, give out magic armor so everybody gets it. Why,put in system that puts all rhis in if it then requires you to give out items to throw it away by say 10th? If in your games the armir wearers are beating the spellcasters so badly, then it makes sense. In your games, if heavy armor builds are outshining light armor plus dex plus spell based builds, then it makes sense. Those are just not results i see overwhelmingly happening in games i play, run or see discussed. Big Picture: Some character concepts in the fantasy genre have real world analogs but others dont. That is where the flaw in the general approach of "hey lets add more realism in" runs aground. We dont have "real world" magic to extrapolate these "logical" additions into for spells. We dont have "massive hit dice gains" to extrapolate into. So, it ends up being a skew to already tenuous balances between the character concepts and game elements that are trying to represent somewhat mundane elements as competitive in the magic world. This is a great way to get armor wearer PCs out of the game. [/QUOTE]

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