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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Homebrew Simple Spell-less Spellcaster: the Elementalist (4e)
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<blockquote data-quote="NotAYakk" data-source="post: 7868315" data-attributes="member: 72555"><p>So EB with the level 2 invocation is (1d10+mod)*4. At mod=5, that is 10.5*4=42 damage at-will.</p><p></p><p>Eldritch Smite gives you 4 uses of +6d8 (27) per short rest, which can be applied after you know if you crit.</p><p></p><p>---</p><p></p><p>Escalation should be d12 as well; rolling more of the same dice is less annoying.</p><p></p><p>---</p><p></p><p>So 2d12+Int(5)+con(3) is 21 damage. So <strong>half of what an EB does</strong>. Like I said, abysmally bad.</p><p></p><p>Escalation upgraded to d12s gives +3d12 or 19.5, and 3 times per short rest. So, abysmally bad compared to Eldritch Smite.</p><p></p><p>Hitting two targets is nice, but (a) a discount of 50% on the second target is reasonable, and (b) if you don't have the <em>choice</em> to focus it sucks because you suck in boss fights.</p><p></p><p>In any case, your burst is (21+19.5) on 2 targets, so about 60 after discount. The Warlock is 69 by burning one smite, and can crit-fish to boost that to 96 for 1 encounter resource. The Warlock gets 4 such resources; you get 3.</p><p></p><p>And then the rest of your chassy isn't as good as the Warlock.</p><p></p><p>---</p><p></p><p>Compared to the Rogue, they deal 11d6+stat+item+some, or about 50, at-will. And can usually attack with advantage due to their utility abilities.</p><p></p><p>---</p><p></p><p>Now, the Vulnerability ability might break this; it doubles your damage output if you hit on the last turn.</p><p></p><p>If that is sufficient, this means this problem just exists from like level 5 through 16. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>---</p><p></p><p>How about a half-caster Warlock chassis? So you get 1-4 "escalations" of 1d12 to 5d12.</p><p></p><p>Your core, at-will damage should be:</p><p>L 1: 10ish</p><p>L 5: 21ish</p><p>L 11: 32ish</p><p>L 17: 42ish</p><p>to keep up with the EB Warlock. If you also include hex:</p><p>L1: 13ish</p><p>L5: 28ish</p><p>L11: 42ish</p><p>L17: 56ish</p><p>which is reasonable to do (if a Warlock isn't using Hex, they have better things to do).</p><p></p><p>Encounter damage budget is:</p><p>L1: 10</p><p>L5: 35</p><p>L10: 108</p><p>based off a Warlock doing nothing but non-critical Smites. (Note: I double-dipped Hex slot; so shaving off 13->27 encounter damage to pay for the Hex's damage is probably a good thing).</p><p></p><p>At 11-20 their smites don't get better. If you value the 6/7/8/9 slots as no better than smites (and I'd argue they are better than smites), they get the equivalent of 153 daily damage from them (at 2 short rests/long, that is ~50 damage /rest).</p><p></p><p>Anything below that and you are just not doing enough damage. Amounts above that should be balanced off (a) warlock crit-fishing, (b) other warlock abilities (such as Hex).</p><p></p><p>---</p><p></p><p>The warlock also goes crazy with the new "Illusionist's Bracers", where at-will damage almost doubles.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="NotAYakk, post: 7868315, member: 72555"] So EB with the level 2 invocation is (1d10+mod)*4. At mod=5, that is 10.5*4=42 damage at-will. Eldritch Smite gives you 4 uses of +6d8 (27) per short rest, which can be applied after you know if you crit. --- Escalation should be d12 as well; rolling more of the same dice is less annoying. --- So 2d12+Int(5)+con(3) is 21 damage. So [B]half of what an EB does[/B]. Like I said, abysmally bad. Escalation upgraded to d12s gives +3d12 or 19.5, and 3 times per short rest. So, abysmally bad compared to Eldritch Smite. Hitting two targets is nice, but (a) a discount of 50% on the second target is reasonable, and (b) if you don't have the [I]choice[/I] to focus it sucks because you suck in boss fights. In any case, your burst is (21+19.5) on 2 targets, so about 60 after discount. The Warlock is 69 by burning one smite, and can crit-fish to boost that to 96 for 1 encounter resource. The Warlock gets 4 such resources; you get 3. And then the rest of your chassy isn't as good as the Warlock. --- Compared to the Rogue, they deal 11d6+stat+item+some, or about 50, at-will. And can usually attack with advantage due to their utility abilities. --- Now, the Vulnerability ability might break this; it doubles your damage output if you hit on the last turn. If that is sufficient, this means this problem just exists from like level 5 through 16. ;) --- How about a half-caster Warlock chassis? So you get 1-4 "escalations" of 1d12 to 5d12. Your core, at-will damage should be: L 1: 10ish L 5: 21ish L 11: 32ish L 17: 42ish to keep up with the EB Warlock. If you also include hex: L1: 13ish L5: 28ish L11: 42ish L17: 56ish which is reasonable to do (if a Warlock isn't using Hex, they have better things to do). Encounter damage budget is: L1: 10 L5: 35 L10: 108 based off a Warlock doing nothing but non-critical Smites. (Note: I double-dipped Hex slot; so shaving off 13->27 encounter damage to pay for the Hex's damage is probably a good thing). At 11-20 their smites don't get better. If you value the 6/7/8/9 slots as no better than smites (and I'd argue they are better than smites), they get the equivalent of 153 daily damage from them (at 2 short rests/long, that is ~50 damage /rest). Anything below that and you are just not doing enough damage. Amounts above that should be balanced off (a) warlock crit-fishing, (b) other warlock abilities (such as Hex). --- The warlock also goes crazy with the new "Illusionist's Bracers", where at-will damage almost doubles. [/QUOTE]
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Homebrew Simple Spell-less Spellcaster: the Elementalist (4e)
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