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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8704370" data-attributes="member: 6801228">It is? LooksOkay, this is odd. Sword burst is dex save, all targets, 1d6 force. Thunderclap is con save, all targets, 1d6 thunder, Loud. Word of Radiance is con save, targets of choice, 1d6 radiant. This design space is weird and the only consistent thing is that 5 ft aoe cantrips deal 1d6 damage. And again, I'm not sure these cantrips are even good. There is a breakdown on rpgbot.net that says these cantrips are better than a melee fighter when you can deal damage to three targets. The problem I find is that this comparison was against a 1 handed melee weapon with no styles, and the moment you change that assumption, you find this isn't that cut and dry. Sure, if the fighter is dealing 1d8+3 they have 7.5 and against three failed saves the cantrip does 10.5. But if you are a fighter using Dueling, that is 1d8+5 or 9.5 damage. Much closer. If you are a fighter using a greatsword, you are dealing 2d6+3 with the style giving +1 and that is 11 damage. Better than three failed saves with the cantrip.  (double checking, they do show the weapons in a second chart) And this I think also ignores the high risk behavior inherent in these cantrips. To be as good as a martial you need three targets, next to you, that all fail their save. If even one makes their save, then you have done less damage. And unlike most heavily armored melee fighters with high hp... you don't have those things. Additionally, you've rarely done enough damage to actually kill those targets, so you have three attacks coming at you. So, to be even worth the action for the damage, you need to put yourself in the worst possible position. I just don't see that as viable.Yeah, scaling only once bucks the system. But I'm fine bucking the system on this. Going up to 4d6 feels too powerful considering the riders, but cantrips that don't scale like Shillelagh, Magic Stone, ect are often derided because while they are good early game, mid to late game the lack of scaling makes them feel worthless.Yes, this is the point. I don't see very many people choosing to take their caster and use this to run deeper into the enemy lines, but mostly the disadvantage on everyone is just an ease of use thing. Making it too specific like one of the previous iterationsI guess my issue with your version is why would I take this instead of shocking grasp? Shocking Grasp is better damage, on an attack roll that may have advantage , and prevents the AoO entirely. The movement increase is better, but defensively, this falls short.</blockquote>

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