Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 3293093" data-attributes="member: 4937">Thanks, Nifft.  I'm intrigued by your ideas but I want to think them through fully before stealing any of them.All that makes sense.  No saving throw (DC 100 or something) or do you implicitly forfeit the saving throw?I'll think about it.Ok.  What if you are under duress?  To what extent is duress an offense?  Charmed?  Tortured?  Threats made against loved ones?  In other words, is this essentially an infernal contract and it must be willingly entered into?That works great for everyone but the owner. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused    :confused:"  data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" /> Well, it could conceivably have a measurable game effect.  For example, if its a case of the Celestial stopping your tongue, then this effect is a product of force and unlike the case of the Infernal Oath it involves omniscience (not only do you have to hear all utterances of a language but you have read all thoughts of the speaker) and virtual omnipotence because the speakers isn't voluntarily forgoing a saving throw.  It's suggestive however that Infernals can lie in Celestial, in that that suggests that if you get powerful enough or far enough out of the influence of whatever diety is involved here or whatever that you can no longer be forced.  Now, if you are anything like me you'd never let a PC obtain that sort of power, but its interesting to know what is going on behind the curtain.That is an important distinction.That doesn't help, because then you might still be lying if you said, "I believe that the moon is made of cheese."  The fact that I believe or don't believe something is itself an objective fact.  But if it is possible to be ignorant in Celestial and if Infernals can lie in it, we can be pretty positive that the problem stems not from the structure of Celestial but someone imposing thier will on the language.Well, there is always that, though I was wondering if this would be considered an approved method of divination in your universe, and if so, what would its limits be.  But, if it is possible to be ignorant in Celestial, it wouldn't work anyway.No, thank you.</blockquote>

Verification