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<blockquote data-quote="3catcircus" data-source="post: 4323049" data-attributes="member: 16077">I don't look at it that way at all.&nbsp; BECMI is D&amp;D.&nbsp; 1e is AD&amp;D.&nbsp; Different games, different names.&nbsp; Similarly to how HARP is derived from, but not, Rolemaster.&nbsp; 3.x just happened to be named &quot;D&amp;D,&quot; but I think everyone who played earlier editions recognized it's parentage as AD&amp;D.Even if something like THAC0 doesn't exist in 3.x, you can clearly see the evolution from the &quot;to-hit&quot; tables in 1e to THAC0 in 2e to the BAB tables in 3.x.Not so with some of the rules in 4e - where did the concept of at-will, encounter, daily, and utility powers come from?&nbsp; Where did the concept of powers itself come from?&nbsp; No prior edition of the game refers to what fighters or rogues do as &quot;powers.&quot;More importantly, other than daily spells or paladin abilities, all of the cool moves that PCs can do in previous editions of the game seem only to be &quot;situationally&quot; limited.&nbsp; That is, in 1e/2e, a fighter-type (and only a fighter-type) PC could try to hit someone so hard that they kill them with one blow and then cleave into the next available bad guy - they got one attack per fighter level against creatures with less than one hit die.&nbsp; In 3.x, the requirement was just to have power attack, which made the emphasis on the fighter's strength and not on his level (as well as opening up the possibility to anyone who was willing to spend a feat on it.)&nbsp; Now - in 4e, it feels like its been reduced to its lowest common denominator.&nbsp; Cleave is an &quot;at-will&quot; power?&nbsp; So what, it was in previous editions too.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="3catcircus, post: 4323049, member: 16077"] I don't look at it that way at all. BECMI is D&D. 1e is AD&D. Different games, different names. Similarly to how HARP is derived from, but not, Rolemaster. 3.x just happened to be named "D&D," but I think everyone who played earlier editions recognized it's parentage as AD&D. Even if something like THAC0 doesn't exist in 3.x, you can clearly see the evolution from the "to-hit" tables in 1e to THAC0 in 2e to the BAB tables in 3.x. Not so with some of the rules in 4e - where did the concept of at-will, encounter, daily, and utility powers come from? Where did the concept of powers itself come from? No prior edition of the game refers to what fighters or rogues do as "powers." More importantly, other than daily spells or paladin abilities, all of the cool moves that PCs can do in previous editions of the game seem only to be "situationally" limited. That is, in 1e/2e, a fighter-type (and only a fighter-type) PC could try to hit someone so hard that they kill them with one blow and then cleave into the next available bad guy - they got one attack per fighter level against creatures with less than one hit die. In 3.x, the requirement was just to have power attack, which made the emphasis on the fighter's strength and not on his level (as well as opening up the possibility to anyone who was willing to spend a feat on it.) Now - in 4e, it feels like its been reduced to its lowest common denominator. Cleave is an "at-will" power? So what, it was in previous editions too. [/QUOTE]

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